Subconscious Atheism

[_Sethbag]

I think people feel stupid about praying in public because praying in public is pretty stupid. "Stupid" is an objective description, OK, but apparently the people agree with me, based on their actions.

There's nothing new under the sun. A person isn't going to spill their guts to God and lay out all their personal problems. They aren't going to start dishing to God about all the help they know their classmates need. They're just going to ask him to watch over them as they go on about their daily lives ("daily lives" is another of those Mormon cliché terms, kind of funny), ask him to bless them with his Spirit (a meaningless platitude), and thank him for all their blessings (not by enumerating them, just by a general invocation of the term). It's formulaic, and a mere formality, and they all know it.

They know that absolutely nothing about their lives that day is going to be any different whether they pray and say these things or not, and they know that everyone else knows this too, so they feel stupid about going through the motions. As well they should, because it really is stupid.

[_Drifting]

Perhaps God just hasn't done a good enough job of establishing His credibility with your students. They just aren't motivated enough to do it willingly. If He was a kinder, more attentive, less onerous God perhaps His kids might chat to him more.

[_aranyborju]

I didn't read it as carefully as I should have. I still think the reason most hand don't shoot up ( I would fall into this area) is because of embarrassment. I am not sure there is a connection between reluctance to publicly pray and belief. Many people who have strong testimonies would also be afraid to give a talk in Sacrament.

I do think that fear of public speaking probably does have a lot to do with it. I have been trying to think of different settings where the same phenomenon might occur. Praying in families also comes to mind. "Thanks 4 th food hope we hava gooday nayskrismen." I think I am looking at it almost as an issue of respect. People claim to have a testimony that he truly is our Heavenly Father and that we love him and are so eternally thankful that he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins, but they can't be bothered to speak to him properly.

[_Quasimodo]

On the drive home and on the way to work I began to wonder if, on a subconscious level, most people don't actually believe in God, that He watches over us, or that He listens to our prayers. This phenomenon is not restricted to only teenagers in the wee hours of the morning...when I taught gospel doctrine it was the same thing. As soon as it was time to pray everyone avoided eye contact.

So do people who claim to have a testimony really believe in a Heavenly Father, and if so, why are they so quick to spurn an opportunity to speak with him?

Great question! As a life long agnostic, I've thought about that, too. I think most people (whether religious or not) don't give much daily thought to a divinity. Much easier to let the Priests, Clergy, Bishops worry about that.

I never pray. I honestly can't see the point. If there is an all knowing God, what could I tell God that God doesn't already know?

There have been moments in my life (one in particular when I thought I, my dog and my little Jeep were heading down a thousand foot cliff to the bottom) when I was hoping that some external force would save us. I still wasn't praying.

I think if people do need to pray, it's a very private thing. Saying grace and public prayers at the end of a function are formalities.

[_Hoops]

Great question! As a life long agnostic, I've thought about that, too. I think most people (whether religious or not) don't give much daily thought to a divinity.

Depends on what you mean by "daily" - most people I know like me think on Him several times a day, and often more. Granted, life's worries get in the way a lot, but I'm not sure you blanket assertion carries much weight.

Much easier to let the Priests, Clergy, Bishops worry about that.

Ah, yes, Protestantism is wonderful. We regard the responsibility as ours.

I never pray. I honestly can't see the point. If there is an all knowing God, what could I tell God that God doesn't already know?

Nothin. That's not the point of prayer. Prayer is to change me, not to change God.

There have been moments in my life (one in particular when I thought I, my dog and my little Jeep were heading down a thousand foot cliff to the bottom) when I was hoping that some external force would save us. I still wasn't praying.

Is that good? Why?

I think if people do need to pray, it's a very private thing. Saying grace and public prayers at the end of a function are formalities.

Hmmm... I suppose to a degree. But it is also unifying. It serves to bind us together in a way. That's more than just ceremony.

[_Drifting]

Nothin. That's not the point of prayer. Prayer is to change me, not to change God.

I agree with you.
But the same effect can be delivered by positive thinking, meditation, counselling etc. no need to involve a God for that.
God is just the label you put on your process for getting your head round stuff. And fair play to you, if that's what works.

[_Fence Sitter]

Hmmm... I suppose to a degree. But it is also unifying. It serves to bind us together in a way. That's more than just ceremony.

I think the binding together is important, especially in a public setting. Whether it be praying, a moment of reflection, or singing the national anthem, it gives us a common experience on which to build relationships.

[_Quasimodo]

Depends on what you mean by "daily" - most people I know like me think on Him several times a day, and often more. Granted, life's worries get in the way a lot, but I'm not sure you blanket assertion carries much weight.

You and your friends might be an exception.

Ah, yes, Protestantism is wonderful. We regard the responsibility as ours.

Same answer as above.

Nothin. That's not the point of prayer. Prayer is to change me, not to change God.

Then why bother? A little self examination would do the same.

Is that good? Why?

I don't know if it's good or bad. Just how I am.

Hmmm... I suppose to a degree. But it is also unifying. It serves to bind us together in a way. That's more than just ceremony.

I think that is the point of ceremonies. To unify a group. I'm not sure if it qualifies as prayer any more than a flag ceremony during a function. Or the pledge of allegiance.

[_Tarski]

It isn't any embarrassment or shyness that is interesting. That would make sense even if someone believed.

What is interesting is the lack of seriousness or sincerity displayed (tone of voice, choice of words, body language) even while giving the actual prayer.
Do they seem like they really think there is a God watching them and looking into their hearts? What makes praying worthy of an eye role?

[_Panopticon]

I've had similar reactions when people bear their testimonies that they "know" the church is true, but they haven't been paying their tithing, doing their home teaching, etc. If you know the church is true, how could you not do everything that the church requires? As someone who has never known that the church is true (but wanted to believe), this has always been puzzling to me.

Similarly, I have been amazed that people who claimed to have seen angels (e.g., Oliver Cowdery, Martin Harris) so easily apostatized over relatively minor issues. That makes me doubt they actually saw anything.