Atheists - the most hated minority

[_Hoops]

I'm sorry Hoops, I'm not that different. You're going to have to treat me like you treat other atheists. I pretty much agree with Panopticon that you were the one to introduce snark into the discussion here (I'm assuming you're too reasonable to offer an ldsfaqs type "first blood" argument).

I would ask that you re-read the opener.

But the result is that I end up not responding to you a lot on the board.

That's fine.

You once asked me why that was and the reason is that this level of discussion doesn't interest me much. That doesn't mean I'm not interested in discussions of religious and spiritual belief---far from it. I'm just not interested in a snarky-back-and forths on the issue from any side.

That's fine as well. I was just curious.

So, Hoops, I hope this fills in the blank about "my" atheism a bit for you, as I once promised to address. It's not a very thorough or complete account, but maybe its enough to encourage you to think about different ways in which the discussion can go forward. I hope so.

I had assumed as much, as I go to your posts immediately when I see them.

[_Hoops]

The virtue of tolerance isn't in tolerating every conceivable trait or behavior. Rather it is a relatively liberal amount of tolerance for ideas and actions you disagree with to foster peaceful coexistence and generate a diversity of perspectives and choices. It's a fundamental piece of the enlightenment. Its extent isn't infinite.

I'll go ahead and quote a Gadianton post from ZLMB reacting to a dumb Josh McDowell essay that I remember I got a kick out of:

Yes, I can clearly see how tolerant Gadianton and, I assume, you are of McDowell's article. What is this supposed to show me?

It's quite normal in the context of talking about bigotry and mistreatment of a class of people to refer to attitudes towards them as "hate" even if we don't mean hate in the visceral emotional reaction sense.

Then maybe you should stipulate that up front. Hate seems to have a fairly universal definition - that you are saying doesn't really apply, knowing full well that using the word invites the same visceral reaction that you say isn't present.

.Saying a black person probably is a criminal because they are black is hate speech even if you say it without feeling hate and genuinely believe it to be the case.

Hence the problem.

Regarding whether having a natural distrust of atheists is bigoted,

Who said anything about this?

it absolutely is. Bigotry refers to obstinate prejudice.

What does this even mean? I'm not sure why you get to make up your own definition then apply it to anyone as you see fit. What does obstinate prejudice mean? As opposed to some other form or level of prejudice? So if I am prejudice but not obstinately so then it's okay?

In other words, unreasonably adhering to pre-judging a person

What's unreasonable? It would seem, again, you get to define it then criticize those within the definition you've doctored.

because they are a member of some class of people.

Atheism is not a class of people. Atheists are people who have come to a conclusion about the existence of God based on several factors or considerations. That, in itself, warrants my evaluation. I've heard it said many times on this board, and it's insinuated constantly, that believers are also subject to the same evaluation. I.e. - anyone who believes in God is stupid. That seems rather bigoted to me, and fits perfectly within the definition you've constructed. So it would appear my bigotry (alleged) is just a variant of a constant.

[_EAllusion]

Yes, I can clearly see how tolerant Gadianton and, I assume, you are of McDowell's article.

Hey, that's the exact sort of nonsense Gadianton was making fun of in the very passage I quoted. And yet you did it anyway.

Anyways, believing that anyone who believes in God is stupid is a bigoted notion.

Atheists, by definition, are a class of people. I don't even know how to reply to that.

[_Hoops]

Hey, that's the exact sort of nonsense Gadianton was making fun of in the very passage I quoted. And yet you did it anyway.

Yes I did. Interesting isn't it?

Anyways, believing that anyone who believes in God is stupid is a bigoted notion.

Oh, but they're not bigots, right? I see your generosity extends only to those of whom you approve. How tolerant.

Atheists, by definition, are a class of people. I don't even know how to reply to that.

That's fine. But you're left with bigotry being unacceptable toward the classes you approve of, and unacceptable for those you don't. So you're still in the same box.

[_EAllusion]

Oh, but they're not bigots, right? I see your generosity extends only to those of whom you approve. How tolerant.

I said the exact opposite. You quoted me saying the exact opposite before writing this line. I even italicized the word "is" to put emphasis on it being bigotry. You clearly read my post with such a single-minded belief that I'd endorse bigotry towards religious people that you missed me saying the opposite. And I wasn't subtle. Take a step back and think about your posting.

[_Hoops]

I said the exact opposite. You quoted me saying the exact opposite before writing this line. I even italicized the word "is" to put emphasis on it being bigotry. You clearly read my post with such a single-minded belief that I'd endorse bigotry towards religious people that you missed me saying the opposite. And I wasn't subtle. Take a step back and think about your posting.

You do the same. You wrote: "believing that anyone who believes in God is stupid is a bigoted NOTION."

Maybe you weren't trying for the distinction. But, nonetheless, as you've phrased it, only the notion is bigoted, not the people.

One who mistrusts (mistrusts, not hates) atheists is a bigot. Like, allegedly, me.

So all the atheists on this board who continuously trot out the same line that believers are stupid only have a bigoted notion. Believers on this board who mistrust them (gee, I wonder why?) are bigots.

If you weren't going for the distinction then I apologize. But you seem like a man who is quite careful with his words, so taking your words for what they mean seems like a reasonable thing to do.

[_EAllusion]

A bigot is someone who harbors bigoted notions.

[_Blixa]

I said the exact opposite. You quoted me saying the exact opposite before writing this line. I even italicized the word "is" to put emphasis on it being bigotry. You clearly read my post with such a single-minded belief that I'd endorse bigotry towards religious people that you missed me saying the opposite. And I wasn't subtle. Take a step back and think about your posting.

You do the same. You wrote: "believing that anyone who believes in God is stupid is a bigoted NOTION."

Maybe you weren't trying for the distinction. But, nonetheless, as you've phrased it, only the notion is bigoted, not the people.

One who mistrusts (mistrusts, not hates) atheists is a bigot. Like, allegedly, me.

So all the atheists on this board who continuously trot out the same line that believers are stupid only have a bigoted notion. Believers on this board who mistrust them (gee, I wonder why?) are bigots.

If you weren't going for the distinction then I apologize. But you seem like a man who is quite careful with his words, so taking your words for what they mean seems like a reasonable thing to do.

Hoops you REALLY misread EA. There is little difference between calling an idea bigoted and its holder a bigot because a bigot is someone who holds bigoted ideas. In other words, your objection to what EA wrote makes very little sense.

Thinking that all believers are stupid is a bigoted notion. But thinking that all atheists are bigots is also a bigoted notion.

I don't know why you are so hell bent on taking offense and dishing the snarky responses.

[_Hoops]

A bigot is someone who harbors bigoted notions.

Then we all are.

[_Hoops]

Hoops you REALLY misread EA. There is little difference between calling an idea bigoted and its holder a bigot because a bigot is someone who holds bigoted ideas. In other words, your objection to what EA wrote makes very little sense.

Thinking that all believers are stupid is a bigoted notion. But thinking that all atheists are bigots is also a bigoted notion.

I don't know why you are so hell bent on taking offense and dishing the snarky responses.

I think I got him. He explained what did.

Then for all the breathless upheavel alleging that I'm a bigot, as it turns out, everyone is.

Which was my point from the beginning.