My First Encounters with Institutional Mormonism

[_why me]

Fascinating stuff, Simon. I find it incredible that Tvedtnes would come up with a response so quickly to an obscure bishop on the other side of the world. You must have scared the crap out them. LOL.

I remember the dna issue quite well with simon. The problem was even though simon was an obscure bishop, he went on the offensive with his project. And so, there needed to be a reaction. It was really that simple.

[_why me]

Thanks Runtu. Being on the other side of the world is the key. The attacks, which will likely continue in this thread, happily seem to bounce off. It would have been incredibly difficult to take a stand in Utah. fan.

Of course, when someone claims that another person's faith is a fraud, the reaction may come from that group of people whose faith it being attacked but should it come as a surprise? Maybe not.

[_why me]

Yes. The majority of Australian families are either non-believers or they never go to church. My kids fit in perfectly. .

And yet, when we look at children today many are being raised to be egoists and narcissists. Not good at all. Also, there seems to be a lack of empathy and caring for the weak in society. Not good at all too. So, this can conclude that as an economic system comes to be a dog eat dog society, or a competitive reality TV show, everyone suffers from a lack of compassionate ethics.

[_why me]

Yes but what about your righteous father, and heartbroken mother?

I loved that part of one of those letters.

Guilt, the gift that keeps on giving!

Or letters of love because they feared for their son's soul?

[_why me]

I presume you know that youth violence is now a very serious problem in Australia, across all states. Good on your children if they stay aloof from this.

Not to mention binge drinking and a lack of compassionate values that have altruism at the center.

[_why me]

Yes, I frequently felt strong emotions as I read the Book of Mormon, but curiously never when I prayed to ask God for a witness it was true. But I did feel strong emotional feelings and because I had been taught that was the Holy Ghost speaking to me, I felt I knew it was true. I think I felt the strong feelings because of the magnitude of what the Book of Mormon represented. A second witness of the divinity of Jesus Christ.

We all have to come to terms with the feelings of truth that is received within Mormonism. And I cannot say that it is matched in other faiths. What makes the Book of Mormon unique, is the promise at the end of the book. Quite a bold statement to make for the writer of the Book of Mormon unless of course, it was written by a prophet. I can read charles dickens and pray about it and receive nothing...likewise for many works of literature. But of course, charles never claimed that his books were from god and that people should pray about them. The writer of the Book of Mormon had absolute confidence that people would be receiving witnesses to the book. And I do believe that the 11 witnesses plus whitmer's mother who all saw the book of plates must have had a huge experience to keep them within the witness statement in front of the Book of Mormon. Difficult to explain away since they never denied that experience.

[_why me]

I think that Quinn's excommunication was done for similar reasons. They had to go after the fact that he was gay. That way, his historical work, which had been well acclaimed and established, could easily be discredited.

Maybe not. To my knowledge, Quinn has been rather silent on these boards. But my guess is: he wasn't excommunicated for being gay but for some sin. Being gay is not a sin.

[Guest]

I remember the dna issue quite well with simon. The problem was even though simon was an obscure bishop, he went on the offensive with his project. And so, there needed to be a reaction. It was really that simple.

I believe there needed to be a reaction because LDS scholars realised the DNA science profoundly contradicted what most Mormons believed about the ancestry of Native Americans.

I would argue that LDS apologists and Area Leaders went on the offensive with me at a time when all I had done was ask to be released. That's what the letters from the Area President and from FARMS demonstrate very clearly. Perhaps you haven't read them.

[_Simon Southerton]

Yes but what about your righteous father, and heartbroken mother?

I loved that part of one of those letters.

Guilt, the gift that keeps on giving!

Or letters of love because they feared for their son's soul?

The letters came from my Area President, not my mother (my father passed away in 1980). The AP didn't personally know my parents.

It is was very clear in my interactions with Stake and Area leaders that their No. 1 fear was that I would tell other members of the church about the science (lack of Israelite DNA in American Indians).

[_Simon Southerton]

We all have to come to terms with the feelings of truth that is received within Mormonism. And I cannot say that it is matched in other faiths. What makes the Book of Mormon unique, is the promise at the end of the book. Quite a bold statement to make for the writer of the Book of Mormon unless of course, it was written by a prophet. I can read charles dickens and pray about it and receive nothing...likewise for many works of literature. But of course, charles never claimed that his books were from god and that people should pray about them. The writer of the Book of Mormon had absolute confidence that people would be receiving witnesses to the book. And I do believe that the 11 witnesses plus whitmer's mother who all saw the book of plates must have had a huge experience to keep them within the witness statement in front of the Book of Mormon. Difficult to explain away since they never denied that experience.

What evidence or experience do you have that supports your intimation that feelings of truth experienced by members of other faiths don't match those felt by Mormons?