ldsfaqs wrote:Further, I find it funny Brent is actually confirming an LDS claim, that there were others. Of course, he only tells a half truth I'm assuming (haven't read the article) ignoring the fact that there were others of "unknown" lineage, not of Israelite.
Remember, Israelite is Twelve Tribes, not Lehi..... Thus, I find it funny Brent is actually supporting LDS scholarship here.
Were there others in the Promised land among the Nephites according to the Book of Mormon???
Let Us Go to 1st Nephi Chapter 18, Verse 25:
1 Nephi 18:
[25] And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper.
If there were others within the Promised Land when Lehi and his family first arrived in the Promised Land, why didn't Nephi mentioned about them in this Passage???
In the Book of Omni, when the Nephites were commanded by the Lord to leave the land of Nephi, there is mentioning of the Nephites discovering a People.
Let us now go to the Book of Omni, Verses 12 through 16:
Omni 1:
[12] Behold, I am Amaleki, the son of Abinadom. Behold, I will speak unto you somewhat concerning Mosiah, who was made king over the land of Zarahemla; for behold, he being warned of the Lord that he should flee out of the land of Nephi, and as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord should also depart out of the land with him, into the wilderness --
[13] And it came to pass that he did according as the Lord had commanded him. And they departed out of the land into the wilderness, as many as would hearken unto the voice of the Lord; and they were led by many preachings and prophesyings. And they were admonished continually by the word of God; and they were led by the power of his arm, through the wilderness, until they came down into the land which is called the land of Zarahemla.
[14] And they discovered a people, who were called the people of Zarahemla. Now, there was great rejoicing among the people of Zarahemla; and also Zarahemla did rejoice exceedingly, because the Lord had sent the people of Mosiah with the plates of brass which contained the record of the Jews.
[15] Behold, it came to pass that Mosiah discovered that the people of Zarahemla came out from Jerusalem at the time that Zedekiah, king of Judah, was carried away captive into Babylon.
[16] And they journeyed in the wilderness, and were brought by the hand of the Lord across the great waters, into the land where Mosiah discovered them; and they had dwelt there from that time forth.
The People here that the Nephites discovered were the People of Zarahemla (Sometimes called the Mulekites among a lot of the Latter-Day Saints.)
The Following is from the LDS Apologist, Jeff Lindsay's DNA Book of Mormon Web Site Page:
In reviewing a work of John Sorenson (Nephite Culture and Society: Selected Papers, Salt Lake City: New Sage Books, 1997), Brant A. Gardner notes additional factors that point to the presence of others that Lehi and his group almost certainly encountered upon coming to the Americas (Gardner, 2001; see also Brant Gardner's online article, "A Social History of the Early Nephites"). For example, 2 Nephi 5:5,6 lists people in Lehi's group who went with Nephi as he split from Laman and Lemuel and their followers. Nephi lists his family, Sam and his family, Zoram and his family, Jacob and Joseph, his sisters, "and all those who would go with me." He then explains that "all those who would go with me were those who believed in the warnings and revelations of God; wherefore, they did hearken unto my words" (2 Nephi 5:6). It appears that Laman, Lemuel, and the sons of Ishmael, who had been antagonistic to Nephi, are those left behind. The group of unnamed "others" seems by necessity to have included people other than those who came with Nephi from Jerusalem. If there were only one or two others, we would expect Nephi to list them. It's hard to say how many there might have been, but perhaps members of a local hamlet or group of hamlets may have allied with the technologically superior Old World group, helping the latter to learn how to survive in the New World while benefiting from their technology (particularly knowledge of metals).
Link: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/DNA.shtml Is this really a correct interpretation of 2nd Nephi Chapter five, verses five and six? We Must Remember that the Prophet Nephi does Not mention any other People within 1st Nephi Chapter 18, Verse 25.
Here is that Scriptural Passage again:
1 Nephi 18:25:
[25] And it came to pass that we did find upon the land of promise, as we journeyed in the wilderness, that there were beasts in the forests of every kind, both the cow and the ox, and the ass and the horse, and the goat and the wild goat, and all manner of wild animals, which were for the use of men. And we did find all manner of ore, both of gold, and of silver, and of copper.
Let Us Now go to Jacob Chapter Seven, verse 26:
Jacob 7:26:
[26] And it came to pass that I, Jacob, began to be old; and the record of this people being kept on the other plates of Nephi, wherefore, I conclude this record, declaring that I have written according to the best of my knowledge, by saying that the time passed away with us, and also our lives passed away like as it were unto us a dream, we being a lonesome and a solemn people, wanderers, cast out from Jerusalem, born in tribulation, in a wilderness, and hated of our brethren, which caused wars and contentions; wherefore, we did mourn out our days.
(Italic Emphasized Mine.)
We can see by comparing 1st Nephi Chapter 18, verse 25 with Jacob Chapter Seven, verse 26 that the Passage of 2nd Nephi Chapter five, verses five and six does not mean what the LDS Apologist Jeff Lindsay wants it to mean. There were Not any "members of a local hamlet" that joined with the people of Nephi. The Prophet Jacob describes the people of Nephi as "being a lonesome and a solemn people, wanderers, cast out from Jerusalem" towards the end of his life. We must conclude in light of the Passages of 1st Nephi Chapter 18, verse 25 with Jacob Chapter Seven, verse 26 that the Passage of 2nd Nephi Chapter five, verses five and six means that there were only one or two others, who went with the People of Nephi, who were Not any "members of a local hamlet" who went with the People of Nephi.
Please Remember that Scripture interprets Scripture.
The Following important information is from Wikipedia:
Haplogroup X is also one of the five haplogroups found in the indigenous peoples of the Americas.[6] Although it occurs only at a frequency of about 3% for the total current indigenous population of the Americas, it is a bigger haplogroup in northern North America, where among the Algonquian peoples it comprises up to 25% of mtDNA types.[7][8] It is also present in lesser percentages to the west and south of this area—among the Sioux (15%), the
Nuu-Chah-Nulth (11%–13%), the
Navajo (7%), and the Yakama (5%).[9]
Unlike the four main Native American mtDNA haplogroups (A, B, C, D), and the Y-chromosome sub-haplogroup Q1a3a, X is not at all strongly associated with East Asia. The main occurrence of X in Asia discovered so far is in the Altay people in Southwestern Siberia,[10] and detailed examination[4] has shown that the Altaian sequences are all almost identical (haplogroup X2e), suggesting that they arrived in the area probably from the South Caucasus more recently than 5,000 BP.
Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_X_(mtDNA)
Haplogroup
X is the only one of the five haplogroups found within the indigenous Peoples of the Americas that is not strongly associated with Eastern Asian. Haplogroups
A,
B,
C, and
D are all strongly associated with Eastern Asia.
in my opinion, The most damning evidence against John Sorenson's
Isthmus of Tehuantepec Setting for the Book of Mormon are the DNA Results that have been Published from the Native Mesoamericans from Mexico. Out of one of the Published DNA Results, which consisted of 477 individuals from the Native Mesoamericans from Mexico, 241 of them belonged to haplogroup A2, 136 of them belonged to haplogroup C1, 84 of them belonged to haplogroup B2, 13 of them belonged to haplogroup D1, two of them belonged to haplogroup D4h3, while just one of them belonged to an European haplogroup.
Haplogroup
X has Not been found within any of the indigenous Peoples that live South of the
Isthmus of Tehuantepec.
Linguistic and maternal genetic diversity are not correlated in Native Mexicans: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... =pmcentrez"And I've said it before, you want to know what Joseph Smith looked like in Nauvoo, just look at Trump." - Fence Sitter