When Chapel Mormons Attack

[Guest]

Okay. I'm going to try to make this as simple as possible. You said, "It is the anti-mormon/ex-mormon who goes around claiming that so-called intellectual Mormons know the "real truth" while so-called chapel Mormons do not."

Daniel C. Peterson Said,

"He [Stanley Kimball] spoke of three levels of Mormon history. Level A, he said, is the Sunday School version... He noted that the Church typically seeks to keep its members on Level A or, at least, feels no institutional obligation to bring them to a deeper level... Many good saints will live their entire lives on Level A, and they will be saved."

Here you have Daniel C. Peterson saying that average members are at a lower level than level C. Mormons. That Level C Mormons understand the "more complicated version of history." He is saying pretty clearly that "chapel Mormons" or "level A" Mormons don't know the whole truth.

And "I'm" going to try and make this as "simple as possible"....

You completely ignore this little statement to create your belief:

"he contended and I agree, turns out to be essentially, and profoundly, like Level A"

In case you don't understand English..... Dan is saying that Level C is EXACTLY like Level A.
The only difference is that Level C is simply MORE information. It however still entirely supports Level A belief and understanding.

In other words, Level A people DO "know the whole truth" in it's basic form. Level C people simply know more "details" and information that supports that "whole truth". Level B people in contrast "pervert" and ignore the truth or are simply plain ignorant of it.

Further, of course it's a "lower level"..... That is nothing sinister! A mortal I'm at a lower level compared to God. No normal Mormon is going to be offended that they are lower than the "Prophet" for example in understanding the Gospel. It is a common Mormon belief that WE ALL are at different levels of understanding.

Anyway, bottom line, as I made clear in my response, the Article Writer clearly by what she said has read some anti-mormon/ex-mormon statements, and falsely attributed those to Internet LDS. It is clear as day.

[_Willy Law]

In case you don't understand English..... Dan is saying that Level C is EXACTLY like Level A.
The only difference is that Level C is simply MORE information. It however still entirely supports Level A belief and understanding.

In other words, Level A people DO "know the whole truth" in it's basic form. Level C people simply know more "details" and information that supports that "whole truth". Level B people in contrast "pervert" and ignore the truth or are simply plain ignorant of it.

Clear as mud, thanks faq...you take your meds yet this evening?

[_ldsfaqs]

In case you don't understand English..... Dan is saying that Level C is EXACTLY like Level A.
The only difference is that Level C is simply MORE information. It however still entirely supports Level A belief and understanding.

In other words, Level A people DO "know the whole truth" in it's basic form. Level C people simply know more "details" and information that supports that "whole truth". Level B people in contrast "pervert" and ignore the truth or are simply plain ignorant of it.

Clear as mud, thanks faq...you take your meds yet this evening?

I don't take "meds" and don't need to Mr. [personal attack deleted].....

Do you enjoy picking on people you view as weaker Mr. [personal attack deleted]???

[_Stormy Waters]

And "I'm" going to try and make this as "simple as possible" you condescending scum....

You completely ignore this little statement to create your belief:

"he contended and I agree, turns out to be essentially, and profoundly, like Level A"

In case you don't understand English..... Dan is saying that Level C is EXACTLY like Level A.
The only difference is that Level C is simply MORE information. It however still entirely supports Level A belief and understanding.

In case you don't understand english, essentially doesn't mean the same thing as exactly.

The only difference is that Level C is simply MORE information.

Exactly. Information or "truth" that Level A people don't have, and that the church apparently feels no obligation to teach "Because souls are lost on Level B."

[_bcspace]

With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith.

Except you have never shown where the Church proclaims that "published' by the Church establishes doctrine

Actually I have. The above is a prime example which only the intellectual honest can ignore. There is also the fact that in Teaching, No Greater Call, official publications are to be used to keep the doctrine pure. That's not possible if there are bits of unidentified non doctrine therein.

[Guest]

I think it may have something to do with the unstated assumption that perfection can be only one thing, and that as we approach perfection, we must all of necessity become more and more similar until we are indistinguishable from each other.

Maybe people intentionally take their sweet time getting to perfection so as to avoid the whole indistinguishable part. Every person wanders heaven, dreading that day...

Then, you see a few brave souls, who took it upon themselves to buck the system. They said, "screw you!" to the system, slipped into leather, jumped into a Red Baron, and hit the throttle. Nobody ever saw these brave souls again. Every now and again, you hear of a red light shining in Amiens. Rumor has it that this is a renegade soul, who came crashing down from heaven, in a blaze of glory.

[_bcspace]

So who should change in order that we become one? The only standard for that is official LDS doctrine. Therefore, for example, the one who accepts gay marriage has to change by definition.

You need to change BC. Your hard ass attitude is going to end you up in hell. I promise.

D&C 88:81

[_Blixa]

Then, you see a few brave souls, who took it upon themselves to buck the system. They said, "screw you!" to the system, slipped into leather, jumped into a Red Baron, and hit the throttle. Nobody ever saw these brave souls again. Every now and again, you hear of a red light shining in Amiens. Rumor has it that this is a renegade soul, who came crashing down from heaven, in a blaze of glory.

You have a charming style, zeez...

[_ldsfaqs]

And "I'm" going to try and make this as "simple as possible" you condescending scum....

You completely ignore this little statement to create your belief:

"he contended and I agree, turns out to be essentially, and profoundly, like Level A"

In case you don't understand English..... Dan is saying that Level C is EXACTLY like Level A.
The only difference is that Level C is simply MORE information. It however still entirely supports Level A belief and understanding.

In case you don't understand english, essentially doesn't mean the same thing as exactly.

The only difference is that Level C is simply MORE information.

Exactly. Information or "truth" that Level A people don't have, and that the church apparently feels no obligation to teach "Because souls are lost on Level B."

Still..... Problem with your assumptions is that many people go from Level A to C naturally, without Level B ever being a problem, because they are learners, have a strong interest in scholarship. And they were taught most of what they know by the Church. They actually read the Ensign Articles, they actually read the scriptures, they actually follow the words and teachings of the Prophets, read their books, etc. See, what you don't understand, is that people who get stuck at Level B are people who were mostly already stuck at Level A, people who only "touch" scholarship whenever they feel like. What you further don't understand is that Level B is FULL OF LIES, perversions of the truth, half truths, a little truth and fact to tell great lies, etc. That's why level B is a problem.

As to the Church, the Church teaches the Gospel, not every aspect of history and scholarship, and certainly not the anti-mormon perversion and lies about it.

However, I would like to make clear that while the Church does mostly focus on the Level A teaching, it DOES often touch Level C, in articles, books, etc., even promoting FAIR articles etc. Still, it's hard enough getting people to live the Gospel, let alone spend even more time on in depth scholarship as well as anti-mormonism. Thus, why the Church mostly focuses on Level A. People are still free to go to Level C and higher if that is their interest. Nothing is hidden.

[_moksha]

I was a basic level A believing Mormon..... became an anti-mormon/anti-religion level B, then became believing again, at Level C.

Good thing we have Liahonas, lest we ever find ourselves adrift in the C of the imagination.