The "Final Solution"?

[_MCB]

Someone with sense. The thread title was not meant to be taken literally. Maybe I'll change it to The "Final Solution".
Then there's the term "Nazi-Mormon", even used by Robert Kirby. Does anyone seriously believe that these Mormons are "Nazis" in the most literal sense?

They are not, but their thinking has some of the same characteristics, and could evolve in that direction. Just watch the MAD-board for any length of time, and you will see.

I'm north of Mrs. Jack, and not far away, and we are actually having an exceptionally mild winter.

[_RayAgostini]

I don't think anyone should believe in Mormonism. That would end Mormonism, I would imagine. I feel the same way about any other view I regard as extremely unreasonable. If you don't think that people should not believe unreasonable things, then I think there is a problem with you. To rhetorically compare that to Nazi genocide is so over the top ridiculous that it's more sad than offensive.

There's far more to life than "science and fact". People do believe many "unreasonable" things, that is true, and they are not only among the "religious". There's a, if you unlike, a "spiritual dimension" to every person on earth, something that cold hard facts can never understand/comfort. When we are depressed, lonely, feel lost, inadequate, and need human affection, and most of all forgiveness for past mistakes, "science" is a "miserable comforter". When one experiences the loss, through death, of a loved one, or even a traumatic divorce, and worst of all, the loss of a child, Nietzsche or Newtonian physics are unlikely to provide relief or comfort.

You may well call this "grabbing at crutches". Humans are more than "evolution's machines". They feel, they hurt, and they cry. Let me know when someone gets a computer to feel real emotion, and to cry.

Paradoxical faith in a post- optimistic world.

[_sock puppet]

Get rid of Mormonism. No more forums, no more discussions - just get rid if it, because it's useless to humanity. This is the message almost all of you convey here, that there's scarcely a single redeeming quality in "Joseph's baby". It should be wiped from the earth.

Anyone here disagree that the world would be better off without this blight on religion and humanity?

If you don't agree with that, you all coulda fooled me, and the amount of time you all spend here bashing Mormonism to kingdom come.

I think that you've said more in those two words, "Joseph's baby", than in all your other posts over the past 12 months.

[_EAllusion]

I don't think anyone should believe in Mormonism. That would end Mormonism, I would imagine. I feel the same way about any other view I regard as extremely unreasonable. If you don't think that people should not believe unreasonable things, then I think there is a problem with you. To rhetorically compare that to Nazi genocide is so over the top ridiculous that it's more sad than offensive.

There's far more to life than "science and fact". People do believe many "unreasonable" things, that is true, and they are not only among the "religious". There's a, if you unlike, a "spiritual dimension" to every person on earth, something that cold hard facts can never understand/comfort. When we are depressed, lonely, feel lost, inadequate, and need human affection, and most of all forgiveness for past mistakes, "science" is a "miserable comforter". When one experiences the loss, through death, of a loved one, or even a traumatic divorce, and worst of all, the loss of a child, Nietzsche or Newtonian physics are unlikely to provide relief or comfort.

You may well call this "grabbing at crutches". Humans are more than "evolution's machines". They feel, they hurt, and they cry. Let me know when someone gets a computer to feel real emotion, and to cry.

Paradoxical faith in a post- optimistic world.

Being reasonable doesn't require you to be an emotionless computer. It doesn't preclude sorrow or comfort. So, to the extent that I can make sense of this, I think you are presenting a false dichotomy. You seem to be implying that comfort can only be found in unreasonable beliefs or is best found there. Suffice it to day, I don't agree with that. Further, I think ordinary religious people do not disagree with me about the importance of being reasonable in one's beliefs. They just think their beliefs are reasonable. You're conceding an awful lot if you are granting that Mormonism is unreasonable to believe in.

[_sock puppet]

I think today's Mormonism probably does more good than harm.

How do you define 'good'? and 'harm'?

[_RayAgostini]

You seem to be implying that comfort can only be found in unreasonable beliefs or is best found there.

Not at all. One doesn't need to believe that Jonah was swallowed by a fish to find comfort in Christianity. One doesn't need to believe that ax heads float, asses talk, or she-bears rip unbelievers apart, to find comfort in Christianity.

Suffice it to day, I don't agree with that. Further, I think ordinary religious people do not disagree with me about the importance of being reasonable in one's beliefs. They just think their beliefs are reasonable. You're conceding an awful lot if you are granting that Mormonism is unreasonable to believe in.

I concede that I find some things in Mormonism unreasonable to believe in. Enoch's floating city, for one, and Jared's mountain disappearing act. So should I reject it all? I don't think so.

[_zeezrom]

I think today's Mormonism probably does more good than harm.

How do you define 'good'? and 'harm'?

I'm gonna throw out the first things that came to mind when I first saw this:

1. A place for families with lots of kids to hang with instantly-made friends.
2. Keep people from being too deviant (?)
3. Free entertainment, reason to dress up, get kids to sit quietly on Sunday
4. "Forcing" a lot of people to be frugal with their discretionary funds
5. Constant reminders to go home teaching

I'm being sincere with this list. It truly is what came to mind.

[_RayAgostini]

Horror of horrors. I seem to fall into Grant Palmer's "nonsense".

The Incomparable Jesus.

[_LDSToronto]

If cultural Mormonism was more like cultural Catholocism, I'd probably consider going back.

H.

[_Shulem]

I concede that I find some things in Mormonism unreasonable to believe in. Enoch's floating city, for one, and Jared's mountain disappearing act. So should I reject it all? I don't think so.

That's all? Hell, what about the rest of the sorry ass Old Testament? Abraham about to murder his poor little boy? And Moses committing murder and treason against the Egyptian state? How about that? The whole Bible is founded upon murder and cultish rites soaked in blood rituals. It's pure evil. It's all about death and obedience to the cult. It's about putting those to death who disobey. Stone them!

And what about the Facsimile No. 3 Explanations. Surely you don't believe those. But apparently it seems there aren't any Mormons alive that do. It's a thing of the past, old Mormon revelations that are of no effect today. No one really believes Joseph Smith's Facsimile garbage. Not even President Monson believes them. Have you ever heard a General Authority bear testimony that they know the Explanations of Facsimile No. 3 are true? Nope, no one has. Not in our day.

Paul O