Shulem wrote: And how dare him kill me just because I'm gay and worthy of death like his sorry ass apostle St. Paul said!
You are so messed up I don't even know where to start. Show me anywhere in the New Testament where Jesus Christ claims He will kill you just because you are gay.
No, really, go ahead.
If you want to discuss the writings of Paul, give it your best shot and so will I.
Who knows what else Jesus said? He said a lot of things. He pissed a lot of people off! Look, the Bible (Old & New) does not look kindly on gays.
Christians today? A baptist told me that I'm going to hell and will burn forever because I'm gay.
Paul O
Did you want to discuss what Jesus said or didn't say about homosexuality in the New Testament?
Did you want to discuss what you think Paul said about homosexuality in the New Testament?
Did you want to just keep blathering?
Pick one.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
Bond James Bond wrote:I'd have no problem with religion going away. People have enough silly stuff to fill their lives nowadays that they don't need ancient fairy tale hour.
"Silly stuff"? Darwin thought differently:
With respect to the theological view of the question; this is always painful to me.— I am bewildered.– I had no intention to write atheistically. But I own that I cannot see, as plainly as others do, & as I [should] wish to do, evidence of design & beneficence on all sides of us. There seems to me too much misery in the world. I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent & omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidæ with the express intention of their feeding within the living bodies of caterpillars, or that a cat should play with mice. Not believing this, I see no necessity in the belief that the eye was expressly designed. On the other hand I cannot anyhow be contented to view this wonderful universe & especially the nature of man, & to conclude that everything is the result of brute force. I am inclined to look at everything as resulting from designed laws, with the details, whether good or bad, left to the working out of what we may call chance. Not that this notion at all satisfies me. I feel most deeply that the whole subject is too profound for the human intellect. A dog might as well speculate on the mind of Newton.— Let each man hope & believe what he can...
Is there any individual that you can think of that is better off being a member of the LDS church? Such a person may exist, but I don't know anyone. Do we remember what this church teaches? This is a church that teaches that sexual sin is next to murder. This is a church whose prophet taught that it was better from a woman to die than to 'permit' herself to be raped. Consider the level of guilt that some members live with each day over the mundane and ridiculous. Consider the homosexuals in the church that were so filled with self-loating that they took their own lives. Consider those who live with depression as a direct result of the teachings of the church. Consider those who have lost relationships with their families and friends because they tried to leave it. That said, having all the members discover that the church is false would be a traumatic experience for many. Do I advocate the church's destruction? I don't. But I will criticize it when I see fit Ray, so piss off.
Last edited by _Stormy Waters on Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stormy Waters wrote: But I will criticize it when I see fit Ray, so piss off.
Thank you for your kind expression. It makes me feel all the more welcome here. I suppose I could detail the myriads of ways "Mormonism ruined my life", but, strangely, I prefer to look on the positive side, which is - how "Mormonism" benefited me. I'm getting to be an old man, with enormous debts hanging over my head, and the prospect of dying "on the job" to pay off these debts, and I could easily blame "Mormonism", for "ruining my life".
I guess I'm just a hopeless optimist, in this regard.
RayAgostini wrote:No surprise there. I've largely come to expect bitter "ex-Mos" to be "beyond feeling".
The church was a big part of my life, and I'll criticize it when it deserves criticism. I can do that without believing the church should destroyed, despite the false dichotomy implied in the OP. And you can continue to whine about the tone of this board, I just don't care if you do.
Stormy Waters wrote:I don't give a damn how you feel Ray.
No surprise there. I've largely come to expect bitter "ex-Mos" to be "beyond feeling".
What do you want Ray? Do you want us to say the church is true or that even though it isn't true only good can come of it?
Suppose for sake of argument that the church is simple not true (and you know what i mean). Would the best world be one where no one is willing to say so outloud and give reasons?
when believers want to give their claims more weight, they dress these claims up in scientific terms. When believers want to belittle atheism or secular humanism, they call it a "religion". -Beastie
yesterday's Mormon doctrine is today's Mormon folklore.-Buffalo
Stormy Waters wrote:The church was a big part of my life, and I'll criticize it when it deserves criticism. I can do that without believing the church should destroyed, despite the false dichotomy implied in the OP. And you can continue to whine about the tone of this board, I just don't care if you do.
The Church was a big part of your life? I'm an ex-bishop. I'm now living in rags and bankruptcy because of all my years of being "devoted to the Church". And no one gives a damn. Still, I don't feel any necessity to go on some kind of "crusade". Live, and let live. Many people have found happiness in Mormonism. Some times you win, and sometimes you lose. That's life. I'm not bitter; I just wish life could have been a bit easier, but because I'm a believer, I don't think that God allows our experiences for no reason. I suppose I'm one of the "God dupes".
Tarski wrote:Suppose for sake of argument that the church is simple not true (and you know what i mean). Would the best world be one where no one is willing to say so outloud and give reasons?
You are certain there's no truth in Mormonism? None at all? You're more confident than I am.