I'm Jewish AND Mormon!

[_beefcalf]

So a Mormon with Native ancestry cannot become an Israeli citizen unless they convert to the Jewish religion? LOL!!!

Being an Israeli citizen does not mean one has to be a Jew. Large numbers of Arab Muslims are Israeli citizens. Ironically, the Arabs with the most freedom of speech and other basic rights are the ones living as citizens of Israel.

Again, Aristotle is correct.

The difference is that a non-Israeli Muslim, or Druze, or Christian, who wants to become an Israeli citizen, general cannot. Only those who have prior claim to 'Jewishness' have that fast-pass to Israeli citizenship.

Of course, why such a policy would ever be instated is a complete mystery to me...

[_MsJack]

Sorry little girl, but your parents are only confusing you. It's an either/or proposition, you can't be both.

Thoughts?

You trolling me, Stak?

Religious self-identity is more than just theological consistency. It's a sense of belonging, of "this is who I am." For my own part, growing up in an areligious household and having bounced around from denomination to denomination throughout my teens and early 20s, I didn't feel like I had much sense of belonging to anyone. "Evangelical mutt" was what I called myself. It was only a few years ago that I realized that "evangelical mutt" could be its own identity, and that led me to an entire denomination of evangelical mutts (i. e. the Evangelical Covenant Church).

Back to Brooks' family though. It's true that Mormonism and Judaism have contradictory theology. So does Mormonism and Catholicism, Protestantism and Catholicism, etc. Pretty much any two faiths which make distinctive truth claims are going to be at least somewhat contradictory.

Then again, faith traditions often make claims within themselves that are contradictory. A person does not stop being Mormon because they choose to accept the tension of "equal partners" and "preside" in the Family Proclamation, nor does a Christian stop being a Christian for believing in the Trinity or the hypostatic union. Why should a self-proclaimed Jewish Mormon cease to be a Jewish Mormon for believing in both Yom Kippur and Mormonism?

Even if one maintains that, theologically, a person can only be Jewish or Mormon and not both, pragmatically, those girls are going to absorb a lot of their identity from both their Jewish father and their Mormon mother. In that sense, they are going to be "Jewish Mormons." I've talked to enough interfaith families to know that it's pretty common for children raised in both faiths to identify as both. For my own part, I don't see a problem with it.

[_MrStakhanovite]

It seems that your conception of what it means to be "Jewish" is somewhat different than the state of Israel. Not saying you are wrong, because I understand where you are coming from, just that there is a very real, legalistic definition that is widely used and is contrary to the original post.

just sayin...

I think we need to draw a distinction here between being Israeli and being Jewish. One can be an Israeli citizen and not be Jewish, and one can be Jewish and not be an Israeli citizen. When providing the secular state of Israel with a maternal link, the motivation to do so is usually wrapped in the religious idea of making Aliyah.

Must I go and inform my parents-in-law that they are not Jewish because they are secular atheists who have never been active as members of a 'Jewish community'?

Sure. One of my great grandfathers was a Presbyterian elder, I’m not counted as a Presbyterian at all, even though I have strong Scottish roots in that religious tradition.

My Great Grandmother was 100% Cherokee Indian, I don’t claim to be part of the Cherokees because I’m so far removed from them in so many senses. Just because at one time in American history, my “mixed blood” would have damned me to a lower social status doesn’t mean I embrace that method of classification, why should culture obsessed national socialists get to define what is Jewish?

I can’t convert to being Welsh, even if I lived among them and spoke their language fluently, but you can convert Judaism and become Jewish.

[_MCB]

OK I understand, just more difficult for a Christian American to become an Israeli citizen.


My mother's mother's mother was Native. Straight through the female line. If the Book of Mormon were true, that would qualify me for a free ticket. However, they can't be argued into accepting it. Hmmmmnnnn

[_Chap]

Must I go and inform my parents-in-law that they are not Jewish because they are secular atheists who have never been active as members of a 'Jewish community'?

Sure.

So we'll say that the Nazis exterminated 6 million people, some of whom were in fact Jews, but many of whom simply shared with the Nazis the illusion that they were Jewish, even though they really were not, since they lived completely secular lives.

Some people don't seem to recognise a reductio ad absurdum when they see it.

[_MrStakhanovite]

So we'll say that the Nazis exterminated 6 million people, some of whom were in fact Jews, but many of whom simply shared with the Nazis the illusion that they were Jewish, even though they really were not, since they lived completely secular lives.

Some people don't seem to recognise a reductio ad absurdum when they see it.

Nazis killed closer to 11 million, which includes Polish Catholics, Gypsies, Homosexuals, and Jehovah Witnesses and numerous others.

Where does the absurdity happen?

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Brooks is basically laughing in the face of the brethren and the rules, is she not??

So Brooks is OK with the idea of being assigned in Mormon heaven to some random man who was a TBM here on earth?

She is also OK with her children being parentless in Mormon heaven?

I don't know how she was raised Mormon, but I was taught that the Jewish people were nearly exterminated by Hitler because how they treated Jesus. The terms that I heard growing up Mormon in Utah was "the Jews deserved what they got for how they treated Jesus".

[_Sethbag]

My Great Grandmother was 100% Cherokee Indian, I don’t claim to be part of the Cherokees because I’m so far removed from them in so many senses.

You are obviously not a hunter.

Jewishness is as much a culture as it is a religion. Just ask all the non-practicing but self-identifying Jews in this country. If that little girl wants to consider herself, due to her cultural connections to both, as Jewish and Mormon, I'm not going to be the one to tell her she's wrong. You could maybe try to appeal this to a Rabbinical court or the Israeli immigration officials to slap her down, but good luck sleeping at night. ;-)

[_Chap]

Must I go and inform my parents-in-law that they are not Jewish because they are secular atheists who have never been active as members of a 'Jewish community'?

Sure.

So we'll say that the Nazis exterminated 6 million people, some of whom were in fact Jews, but many of whom simply shared with the Nazis the illusion that they were Jewish, even though they really were not, since they lived completely secular lives.

Some people don't seem to recognise a reductio ad absurdum when they see it.

Nazis killed closer to 11 million, which includes Polish Catholics, Gypsies, Homosexuals, and Jehovah Witnesses and numerous others.

You seriously did not see that I was using the 6 million figure to refer to the results of Hitler's attempt to exterminate European Jewry?

Where does the absurdity happen?

The absurd consequence is that if you contend that atheist secular Jews not active in a 'Jewish community' are not really Jews, then a lot of people were killed by the Nazis under the following conditions:

1. The Nazis thought wrongly that they were really Jews.
2. The people killed also thought wrongly that they were really Jews.

But if that seems un-absurd to you, who am I to complain after all?

[_moksha]

This, I understand, might require some form of evidence, to possible include paperwork from your rabbi, and possibly a... um... physical check, of sorts...

Thank goodness they are not that invasive during the Bishop's interview.


If one wanted to be both a Mormon Missionary and a Disciple of Christ Missionary, you would be required to knock on doors, and when the resident answered, to reaffirm their spiritual journey.

So can one encompass two separate abstract ideas within a single being? Bcspace would say you can't be a Democrat and a good Mormon. Likewise, you can't have ham and coffee at the same time you are driving in the Indianapolis 500 - that would not be kosher with track safety.