Are the Apologists Embarrassed of Chapel Mormons?

[_Kishkumen]

Since there is no such thing as an Internet and Chapel Mormon, what do we have to be "embarrassed" about???

We are "Mormons"..... We ALL believe the same, save the rare nut like consig who loves his anti-mormonism.

If anyone needed proof of consiglieri's sanity, there it is.

I didn't, but repeated confirmation is still nice.

[_Sethbag]

Just for kicks and giggles, to all the Mormons who claim never to have heard another Mormon claim physical protection by their garments, I offer to you this interview segment with Bill Marriott doing exactly that.

Now you've all heard a Mormon claiming his garments protected his legs from harm in a fire.

[_Quasimodo]

Since there is no such thing as an Internet and Chapel Mormon, what do we have to be "embarrassed" about???

We are "Mormons"..... We ALL believe the same, save the rare nut like consig who loves his anti-mormonism.

I'll bet you're more than a little embarrassed at saying something so silly. You must have posted this in a moment of rash thoughtlessness. Every Mormon has his/ her own particular view of the Church. Chapel, cafeteria, internet or whatever.

If you don't believe this, you must be living in a cave.

[_maklelan]

Just for kicks and giggles, to all the Mormons who claim never to have heard another Mormon claim physical protection by their garments, I offer to you this interview segment with Bill Marriott doing exactly that.

Now you've all heard a Mormon claiming his garments protected his legs from harm in a fire.

I don't know anyone who has claimed to have never heard of such an understanding of garments. Who has claimed to have never heard it? As I have pointed out multiple times, I'm well aware that it's quite common.

[_maklelan]

What do I believe in that's false?

Pretty much everything about my personal motivations, the motivations of Church leaders, the notion that everyone here is stupid enough to believe the stories you concoct about your informant. Those are just the things that are evident through your participation on this board.

What do *you* believe in that's false, for that matter?

That the Broncos are a good football team, that I'm a decent singer, that I can hide my receding hairline, and no doubt a number of other things of which I'm not aware.

I appreciate your candor here, Mak: it's true that people judge each other, and that seems to be what's happening with you and the Chapel Mormons.

Stellar judgment you've passed there, Scratch, but you've still not managed to show I've done any such thing.

And I do live in a world where people who disagree with me on certain things are idiots. For example, I disagree with Droopy on the role of "leftism" in America, and partly because of that, I think he's an idiot. There are also people out there who think that James Joyce was a "hack." These people, too, are idiots.

That's exactly what I was talking about. Such insight.

But you're missing the point.

This is how I know you're abandoning your original line of argumentation: you invent a new point.

It's not as if we're talking about disagreements over trivial things like tastes in sports, food, or literature. We are talking about the One True Church on the Face of the Earth. (Or is that up for debate, too?) And I don't blame you for being sensitive to my line of inquiry: you probably do think that the Chapel Mormons are "knuckle-draggers," and you rightfully don't want to admit it.

No, I believe no such thing, primarily because the category is imaginary, but secondarily because many of the people who would qualify happen to be the people I care most about in my life. Far be it from me to presume to question your judgment of my motivations and personal feelings, though.

That's fine, Maklelan--honesty is almost always the best way to go.

Coming from the most dishonest person on this board, that's of little comfort.

Really, though, the key question here is what to do about this state of affairs.

And the answer, for you, is to push ahead with the same old rhetoric. Damn the facts.

Maybe you should try to put pressure on the Brethren, so that they'll take action and do something about this, so that it doesn't look like you're associated with a bunch of rubes who believe in stupid things?

You continue to ignore my position only to assert I hold the exact opposite position.

[_Sethbag]

Just for kicks and giggles, to all the Mormons who claim never to have heard another Mormon claim physical protection by their garments, I offer to you this interview segment with Bill Marriott doing exactly that.

Now you've all heard a Mormon claiming his garments protected his legs from harm in a fire.

I don't know anyone who has claimed to have never heard of such an understanding of garments. Who has claimed to have never heard it? As I have pointed out multiple times, I'm well aware that it's quite common.

Ok, this is from your first post in this thread:

I don't think I've ever seen anyone bear a testimony regarding the truthfulness of a story about garments physically protecting someone.

Are you going to pick nits with me and try to argue that Marriot wasn't "bearing testimony" about the garments physically protecting him?

[_Doctor Scratch]

What do I believe in that's false?

Pretty much everything about my personal motivations, the motivations of Church leaders, the notion that everyone here is stupid enough to believe the stories you concoct about your informant. Those are just the things that are evident through your participation on this board.

Let me clarify: when I say "believe," I mean "believe" in the LDS Church sense--i.e., that I'm willing to devote my entire life to the cause--I'm willing to put my kids through all the rituals, pay 10% of my income, forego masturbation, coffee, beer, and so on.

Because ultimately, that's what we're talking about here, isn't it? Like I said: this isn't a trivial issue of simply disagreeing on matters of taste.

What do *you* believe in that's false, for that matter?

That the Broncos are a good football team, that I'm a decent singer, that I can hide my receding hairline, and no doubt a number of other things of which I'm not aware.

You are comparing these things to Mormon beliefs?

Think about what you're saying here. You're saying, in effect, that "falsely" believing that the Broncos are a good football team (and they did pretty well, did they not?) is on a par with "falsely" interpreting instructions from the Lord's mouthpieces. This is just a *tad* different, isn't it?

It's not as if we're talking about disagreements over trivial things like tastes in sports, food, or literature. We are talking about the One True Church on the Face of the Earth. (Or is that up for debate, too?) And I don't blame you for being sensitive to my line of inquiry: you probably do think that the Chapel Mormons are "knuckle-draggers," and you rightfully don't want to admit it.

No, I believe no such thing, primarily because the category is imaginary, but secondarily because many of the people who would qualify happen to be the people I care most about in my life. Far be it from me to presume to question your judgment of my motivations and personal feelings, though.

What?!? You won't apply the label of "knuckle-draggers"--which you first introduced into this conversation, I might add--because you "care most about" these people?

All right. I won't press you any further on this, but come on. This is no longer a discussion about rational beliefs. It's about your personal feelings and your loyalty to your friends and family. You may very well think that their beliefs are stupid, but you won't say so because you love them. Well that's fine, Maklelan. That doesn't change the fact that you think the beliefs are stupid.

Maybe you should try to put pressure on the Brethren, so that they'll take action and do something about this, so that it doesn't look like you're associated with a bunch of rubes who believe in stupid things?

You continue to ignore my position only to assert I hold the exact opposite position.

You've clarified your position: you won't denounce what you see as stupid behavior because it would reflect badly on people you care about.

[_Doctor Scratch]

We are "Mormons"..... We ALL believe the same.

Really? In this very thread, Maklelan claims that there is a wide variety of opinion on doctrine among Mormons. Do you think that he harbors apostate views?

[_maklelan]

Let me clarify:

More accurately: "Let me equivocate."

when I say "believe," I mean "believe" in the LDS Church sense--i.e., that I'm willing to devote my entire life to the cause--I'm willing to put my kids through all the rituals, pay 10% of my income, forego masturbation, coffee, beer, and so on.

Of course, that's not the context of my original comment.

Because ultimately, that's what we're talking about here, isn't it?

No.

Like I said: this isn't a trivial issue of simply disagreeing on matters of taste.

It's not official doctrine we're talking about, so it is largely a matter of personal preference, irrespective of what people think they can triangulate from the right combination of GA statements.

You are comparing these things to Mormon beliefs?

No, I'm stating things that I believe that are likely wrong.

Think about what you're saying here. You're saying, in effect, that "falsely" believing that the Broncos are a good football team (and they did pretty well, did they not?) is on a par with "falsely" interpreting instructions from the Lord's mouthpieces. This is just a *tad* different, isn't it?

We're talking about a wide range of beliefs.

What?!? You won't apply the label of "knuckle-draggers"--which you first introduced into this conversation, I might add--because you "care most about" these people?

No, I won't apply the label because many of the people who would fall into that category (were it legitimate) are those I know well enough to know it's not just ignorance and blind faith that contributes to those positions. I see how my wording is misleading, though.

All right. I won't press you any further on this, but come on. This is no longer a discussion about rational beliefs. It's about your personal feelings and your loyalty to your friends and family. You may very well think that their beliefs are stupid, but you won't say so because you love them. Well that's fine, Maklelan. That doesn't change the fact that you think the beliefs are stupid.

I don't believe they're stupid, I just disagree with them. At the same time, it's not about loyalty to my friends and family. I wouldn't characterize anyone that way, friend or otherwise. I happen to know enough of them well enough to know it's not stupidity or ignorance that contributes to those beliefs.

You've clarified your position: you won't denounce what you see as stupid behavior because it would reflect badly on people you care about.

I can see how you could interpret my comments that way, but it's not what I meant.

[_maklelan]

Ok, this is from your first post in this thread:

I don't think I've ever seen anyone bear a testimony regarding the truthfulness of a story about garments physically protecting someone.

Are you going to pick nits with me and try to argue that Marriot wasn't "bearing testimony" about the garments physically protecting him?

I don't consider that to be bearing a testimony.