Can it be Rational to have Faith?

[_honorentheos]

Evening Stak -

I'm not sure if you were planning on revisiting this or not. Or if you finished reading it.

One area I didn't get to in presenting my thoughts last night but might be interesting would be in applying her methods to explain why people do not change beliefs. Especially in the later section on evidence gathering I imagined there would be ways of ad hoc using her postulates to express the rational for NOM behavior among Mormons as an example. As a way of investigating internal cost-benefit analysis related to faith maybe.

[_Panopticon]

Can it be Rational to have Faith?

Must be. Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. I haven't personally seen the earth from space, yet I sometimes sense the curvature of the earth and believe the earth is round and I believe the testimonies of those who have seen it.

I haven't been to the center of a star and made direct measurements and neither has anyone else, yet I believe the CNO fusion cycle it what's taking place there.

etc.

and argue that faith requires terminating the search for further evidence

This notion is not extant in the doctrines of the Church. Quite the opposite is true.

The comparison between taking taking scientific theories on faith (the sun runs on nuclear fusion) is not the same as taking religious "truths" on faith (God appeared to Joseph Smith or baptism is necessary for salvation). Science is a process more than a set of theories. We understand how scientists have developed various theories. We have seen the predictive power of science. We know that the experiments underlying the theories are reproducible.

What is the analogue in religion? We have no idea how Joseph Smith saw God. We can't reproduce the event. We can't predict when or whether God will perform a miracle. Faith is simply believing that the subjective feelings of others hold some metaphysical truths. I have seen no evidence for this.

By the way, the quote from Paul has always sounded like Yoda-speak to me. The appearance of profundity lacking substance.

[_beefcalf]

Let us imagine a man who is in a prison cell. Because of the circumstances involved, let's say that he has no way of knowing the truth of his situation, that is, that he will never be released.

If he knew the truth, every day that he awoke in that cell would be horrific because of the realization that he will eventually die there.

If he developed in his mind the idea that at any point in the future he might be released, and he, however he managed to do it, had faith in this idea, each day would very likely be significantly less horrific than if he knew the truth.

I cannot say that this faith would be rational, because that implies that he knows the truth of his situation but is choosing to disregard it in preference to a more comfortable illusion.

But perhaps the man is fairly sure that he will never get out, to a high degree of certainty...

In such a case, I would accept the argument that, in the face of an apparently hopeless situation, the benefits of having faith (decreased unhappiness) would make a decision to have faith rational.

[_Nightlion]

One problem with intellectualizing about faith is the lack of fire in the belly.

They do not NEED faith to be anything.

An entrepreneur NEEDS to make money and so he hopes what he plans will accomplish that end. That great need also requires that he think through his plans meticulously and hence his great need draws out his best rationality. What is rationality other than thinking about it? Both hope and need generate their own reality and therefore evidence exists upon which to reason.

What I noticed the most, looking back, when faith came to me was my earnest and profound need that something was there for me to cash in on.

And there was, and it was abundant.......ya know.....so follow your need.

Now we can consider exactly what IS need, desires that are rewarded by gifts. Like holding out your hand to the infinite. Prayer?................how unintellectual! But then again this sort never had the fire in the belly.

Faith is the gift of God. So if you do not need it you will never get it. Probably.