The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel

[Guest]

Leaving Mormonism for Christianity means learning to think and view the world differently. So if you would like to explore Christianity, I would explore resources that help you to do that. I would recommend two things.

1) Get a modern Bible translation and start reading it.
2) Visit several churches of different types. One warning, as hard as it may be to fathom for many Mormons, but hardly anyone outside of the LDS church knows anything about Mormons.

If you have a more scholarly bent, I can recommend good resources for studying the Bible and Christian theology.

I think Aristotle has good suggestions. I was thnking about the fact that the book case for Christ presents an outline of considerations without exploring counter arguments. i really do not know many good apologetic books. It seems once one starts digging into the problems you have books which instead of being apologetics are studies of pecific subjects. For the relationship of Bible to history there are many books of various depths. I would recommend New Testament Wright for the New Testament. That is a personal preference, there are plenty of others which are good.

[_Aristotle Smith]

Not to pry, but... where did you land?

I landed in the UMC. It's probably the most comfortable place for an ex-Mormon, and it's easy for my wife and kids to tag along. They are familiar with the church because it was my kids' pre-school and the worship style is similar to an LDS church.

As for recommendations, I have enjoyed the following, but there's no guarantee that anyone else will. In general I recommend starting with a good modern translation, an introduction to the Old Testament, and introduction to the New Testament, and a general overview of the main periods in biblical history. I have starred the books below that provide this overview. From there, it's probably best to just follow the bibliographies and read what interests you. The following are all fairly standard academic, they are not trying to sell or denigrate any particular faith position, but they are definitely not devotional. If you are an EV, you might feel more comfortable with an NIV study Bible, Tremper Longman's Intro to the Old Testament, and D.A. Carson's Intro to the New Testament, and then proceed from there to more specific topics. I haven't read these intros, but I have heard good things about the authors.

Anyway, the list:

Dan Wallace on Textual History of the New Testament:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFZDKyvlJLs

Metzger and Ehman on New Testament Text. This is heavy duty, but this is Ehrman being a responsible scholar:
http://www.amazon.com/Text-New-Testamen ... 019516122X

For being able to appreciate the Bible as a whole, there is a great audio course on the History of the Biblical text done by Luke Timothy Johnson, a moderate Catholic scholar. Wait for it to go on sale:
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/cour ... x?cid=6252

I can't directly recommend it because I have not read it, but I have heard good things about Blomberg's "The Historical Reliability of the Gospels"
http://www.amazon.com/Historical-Reliab ... 0830828079

I think everyone needs to be exposed to Christian Theology and how it has developed. My absolute favorite resource for this, HIGHLY RECOMMENDED, is an audio course done by Phillip Cary for the Teaching Company. He's Anglican and Evangelical. Unfortunately it's not on sale right now. Wait for it to go on sale before purchasing:
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/cour ... x?cid=6450

Cary also has an excellent course on Luther and the Protestant Reformation. This one is more focused on the beginnings of Protestantism, but it is really good on grace. It is on sale right now:
http://www.thegreatcourses.com/tgc/cour ... x?cid=6633

A printed resource for Christian History is the two volume set by Justo Gonzalez:
http://www.amazon.com/Story-Christianit ... 006185588X
http://www.amazon.com/Story-Christianit ... 0061855898

* I always recommend the Oxford Study Bible because it is free from denominational commitments. It uses the NRSV as a base text and is the standard biblical text cited by scholars.
http://www.amazon.com/New-Oxford-Annota ... 0195289552

* A good resource for setting the Bible into its historical context:
http://www.amazon.com/Oxford-History-Bi ... 0195139372

* Good Old Testament Introductory Textbook:
http://www.amazon.com/Old-Testament-His ... 0195378407

* Good New Testament Introductory Textbooks (next three):
By Raymond Brown (have not read, but have read other things by Brown):
http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Test ... 0300140169

By Luke Timothy Johnson (have not read, but have read other things by Johnson):
http://www.amazon.com/Writings-Testamen ... 0800663616

By Bart Ehrman (I have read the third edition, I don't know much about newer versions. Again, when Ehrman has to be scholarly, he is much better behaved).
http://www.amazon.com/New-Testament-His ... 0199757534

[_RayAgostini]

Anyway, the list:

Just curious, are you a Christian? A true believer in Christianity?

[_Stormy Waters]

Dan Wallace on Textual History of the New Testament:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFZDKyvlJLs

An interesting presentation. Thanks for posting!

[_Aristotle Smith]

Anyway, the list:

Just curious, are you a Christian? A true believer in Christianity?

Yes.

[_KevinSim]

You seem to already have your answer.

I think I did an adequate job of explaining my position in the other post. I am quite convinced that God wants me in the LDS Church, but I'm open minded enough to realize that the possibility exists that I might be wrong; I admit the possibility that God might not want me in the LDS Church. That being the case I welcome anybody else's attempts to show me that God might want me in some other faith.

Beyond that, you seem to want an answer without actually doing anything on your own. At least not doing anything related to the Bible or orthodox Christianity.

I'm completely willing to do great amounts of stuff on my own, if I can see any reason to believe what I'm doing might reasonably lead me to discover whether or not God endorses Biblical Christianity. Reading the versions of the Bible you recommended might tell me what some branches of Christianity believe, but why should I believe reading them will tell me why I should believe God wants me to have those beliefs?

To be honest, this is a little silly. If you were to ask if you should take up quilting, jogging, or the study of sociology, my answer would involve trying out quilting, jogging, or studying sociology. Why do you think this situation should be any different?

That's a good analogy. But there are a lot more activities in this world besides just "quilting, jogging, or the study of sociology." There's also stuff like collecting dolls, rock climbing, hang gliding, writing fiction, writing non-fiction, skiing, surfing, touring, public speaking, debating, playing chess, playing basketball, playing computer games, swimming; the list goes on and on. Then there are professions, things you get paid for doing, like garbage collecting, cashiering for a fast food restaurant, accounting, developing software, running for office, starting a business, answering phone calls, civil engineering, piloting airplanes, enlisting in the military, teaching at a university, acting in a theater, editing a newspaper; once again the list goes on and on.

I've mentioned 27 things one can do with one's life; I'm sure with a little bit of work I could come up with 270 such things; I wouldn't be surprised if in total there were 2700 or more.

So, if I were trying to figure out which field was right for me, would I be obligated to try out all 2700 of those fields? Or is there some higher level reasoning I can do to narrow my desired field down to three of four, that I can then try out and see which is right for me?

That "higher level reasoning" is what I'm looking for regarding Biblical Christianity. People tell me that God doesn't want me in Mormonism, and that He does want me in Biblical Christianity. I don't think it's unreasonable to request what the reasons are for why I should abandon the LDS Church and start investigating Biblical Christianity, before I actually do abandon the LDS Church.

[_huckelberry]

I think I did an adequate job of explaining my position in the other post. I am quite convinced that God wants me in the LDS Church, but I'm open minded enough to realize that the possibility exists that I might be wrong;

I've mentioned 27 things one can do with one's life; I'm sure with a little bit of work I could come up with 270 such things; I wouldn't be surprised if in total there were 2700 or more.

That "higher level reasoning" is what I'm looking for regarding Biblical Christianity. People tell me that God doesn't want me in Mormonism, and that He does want me in Biblical Christianity. I don't think it's unreasonable to request what the reasons are for why I should abandon the LDS Church.

You cannot just randomly try everything, makes sense. I am not sure what Biblical Christianity is but what I see is that in Jesus God is recreating the world, humanity and individuals. That lifegiving project is worth particpating in. I do not know which form of Christianity God wants you in. I think you should ask him, along with using your head looking for what paths get you closest to participation with Jesus.

[_Stormy Waters]

I've mentioned 27 things one can do with one's life; I'm sure with a little bit of work I could come up with 270 such things; I wouldn't be surprised if in total there were 2700 or more.

So, if I were trying to figure out which field was right for me, would I be obligated to try out all 2700 of those fields? Or is there some higher level reasoning I can do to narrow my desired field down to three of four, that I can then try out and see which is right for me?

You'll have to at least know something about each one before you'll be able to conclude that you are not interested in it. Can I say that I am not interested in Chess if I know nothing about it? There may be any number of hobbies that you would enjoy if you were more familiar with them.

That "higher level reasoning" is what I'm looking for regarding Biblical Christianity. People tell me that God doesn't want me in Mormonism, and that He does want me in Biblical Christianity. I don't think it's unreasonable to request what the reasons are for why I should abandon the LDS Church and start investigating Biblical Christianity, before I actually do abandon the LDS Church.

You don't have to abandon your current beliefs to investigate the claims of another belief system. When the missionaries go door to door, the first thing they do is explain the basics of the church. To evaluate anything, you'll have to learn the basics of it first. I don't think there is any way to shortchange this process.

[_KevinSim]

You don't have to abandon your current beliefs to investigate the claims of another belief system. When the missionaries go door to door, the first thing they do is explain the basics of the church. To evaluate anything, you'll have to learn the basics of it first. I don't think there is any way to shortchange this process.

How much of the Bible do I have to read, and out of how many versions of the Bible do I have to read it from, to discover the basics of Biblical Christianity?

And do I have to read every single version of the Vedas, the Gathas, and the Adi Granth, so I can be sure God doesn't want me to be part of Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, and Sikhism, respectively? And the same thing for perhaps Wicca, Native American faiths, and African tribal faiths?

I've left Islam off this list on purpose. I'm not particularly inclined to take Islam seriously. Is that a mistake, in your opinion?

My principal objection to Islam is that it draws a picture of a God who has literal omnipotence the way Biblical Christians believe God has, which includes the ability to cause souls to cease to exist if that God (named Allah) wants to, to cause those souls to go from existence to non-existence, sort of the reverse of what Allah did when he brought souls from non-existence to existence on creating them. And yet Allah will send some souls to suffer unbearable agony for the rest of eternity in Hell. I really don't see how anyone with a conscience can seriously consider worshipping such a deity.

Are you saying that I should keep more of an open mind regarding Islam? Are you saying that to really know the faith that God wants me to be in I should read the Quran and see if it actually teaches that Allah is that powerful and yet lets some souls suffer endlessly?

This is, of course, more or less a trick question, since as I understand it Biblical Christianity also teaches that its deity has this power and yet its deity also lets some souls suffer unbearable agony from the point at which they die on and on forever every single moment of eternity. Do you understand Christianity differently, Stormy Waters? Does a thorough reading of some version of the Bible lead you to believe that God either doesn't have the power to cause souls to cease to exist, or that God won't let some souls suffer unbearable agony endlessly?

[_Aristotle Smith]

KevinSim,

Honestly, it is probably best if you just stay where you are.