John 3:61

[_zeezrom]

I guess I'm a little shocked by your posts. Maybe I pictured you as someone who never would say what you've been saying. Maybe that wasn't an accurate picture in the first place. My reaction was to play devil's advocate.

I not sure why some seem to be offended by this post. It's a fair question. Does God require a human sacrifice to be able to forgive us of our sins? If so, why?

shocked, not offended. Actually, more like surprised. I agree it is a fair question.

It's just that I never expected Chris to be asking it.

[_Stormy Waters]

shocked, not offended. Actually, more like surprised. I agree it is a fair question.

It's just that I never expected Chris to be asking it.

Fair enough. Sorry I misunderstood your post.

[_zeezrom]

Fair enough. Sorry I misunderstood your post.

Hey Stormy,

There really is no need to apologize. I say a lot of things before thinking carefully about my words. It's something I hope to work on this year.

[_Buffalo]

The Good News of the Mormon gospel is that you can forget all about Jesus' death. Per The Miracle of Forgiveness, you suffer for your own sins through many self-inflicted whiplashes of self-loathing. When you've suffered enough, perhaps after decades, perhaps after centuries, Jesus will nod his head and say, "that's enough. Just don't do it again or all the same guilt will come back to you that you just atoned for."

A marvelous work and wonder!

[_bcspace]

The only answer I have ever encountered to the conundrum of why Jesus had to be sacrificed in order to offer salvation is the one offered by Mormonism--there was no other way.

Since I hypothesize that the first Gods originally brought themselves up through evolution and Tower of Babel experiences etc., my own answer is there was no easier way. Too many permanent casualties and no equal opportunity without a Savior and perhaps a less than satisfactory end product.

Put in context, perhaps Lucifer was proposing something similar to the old ways which, as we know from doctrine, might have brought us all back, but without any increase on the investment.

[_consiglieri]

. . . my own answer is there was no easier way.

This is an interesting response, bcspace, and I would be interested in hearing more about it.

My first reaction to this, though, is that I would gladly have gone through a harder way to spare Jesus the agony.

What are your thoughts?

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_zeezrom]

If there was no easier way, doesn't this tell us something? Uh, God is not infinite?

[_consiglieri]

If there was no easier way, doesn't this tell us something? Uh, God is not infinite?

Exactly! And that is the radical view of God introduced by Joseph Smith.

Only if God is something less than omnipotent can the problem of evil be solved. (At least, it sure looks that way to me.)

But this is a hard pill for most God-believers to swallow. The Greek philosophical idea of God as that which nothing greater can be imagined seems to be ingrained in pretty much all three of the "monotheistic" religions.

And Mormons appear to be no exception to the rule.

From what I have seen, Mormonism has gone a long way toward jettisoning Joseph Smith in favor of the Greek ideal.

Just ask President Hinckley . . .

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[_zeezrom]

Consig,

You are the only Mormon I know who will go so this far...

:)

[_Nightlion]

I not sure why some seem to be offended by this post. It's a fair question. Does God require a human sacrifice to be able to forgive us of our sins? If so, why?

The atonement of Jesus Christ is NOT a human sacrifice.

Christ was commanded of the Father to show a sign unto the Jews.

Matthew 12:39-40
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The atonement did not occur on the cross. The death and resurrection of Christ was the sign given to prove to the world that THE ATONEMENT had been accomplished. The Jews tortured Christ attempting to kill him but they could never kill him. He willfully laid down his life to complete the commandment and perform the sign that God himself had atoned for the sins of the world to give eternal life to all those who become the children of God by faith in the name of Jesus Christ becoming subject to him casting all other considerations of this world aside for it.

John 10: 18
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Any chance you guys who want to vaunt up superior to God and the belief in him might tone down your vulgarization of my Prophet, Priest an King?