Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

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_Yoda

Re: Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

Post by _Yoda »

harmony wrote:
Jason Bourne wrote:Everyone was so worried when ETB became prophet yet he was very benign.


I remember when he told the women to stay home and be mothers, that getting a real live honest to goodness job with wages and benefits wasn't what women were good for (not in those words, but the message was clear).

I went home and cried.

1985? I don't remember the date. I just remember the despair.

Are you sure that was President Benson? I remember President Kimball placing more of an emphasis on women staying home, getting pregnant as soon as possible, and raising babies.
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Re: Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

Post by _bcspace »

I think that he is right. But also men need to honor the women.


That's exactly what BKP is teaching.
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_zeezrom
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Re: Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

Post by _zeezrom »

Still waiting for this:

" I have been very careful, and am very careful, to treat my husband with that respect and reverence that is due him in performing that thing that is of most worth for a man in this life to live the gospel, to be the husband and the father of the children of a worthy member of the Relief Society."
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Re: Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

Post by _sunstoned »

Are you sure that was President Benson? I remember President Kimball placing more of an emphasis on women staying home, getting pregnant as soon as possible, and raising babies.



Yes, it was Benson for sure. I remember the talk. It caused quite a stir within our ward.
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Re: Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

Post by _why me »

Morley wrote:
why me wrote:
I think that he is right. But also men need to honor the women. When we put both together into a relationship as he suggests, it may work quite well for a happy marriage. Within my marriages there is a great deal of disrespect. But with this kind of foundation, the marriage has a good chance to succeed. Now of course, in nonlds families, they can use the same formula minus the priesthood with a litle imagination.
My emphasis.

Not good. My sympathy.


edit: I guess I can see why you defend Joseph and Brigham.


I corrected my post. The my should not have been there. Posted too fast.
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_Jason Bourne
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Re: Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Jason Bourne wrote:Everyone was so worried when ETB became prophet yet he was very benign.


harmony wrote:I remember when he told the women to stay home and be mothers, that getting a real live honest to goodness job with wages and benefits wasn't what women were good for (not in those words, but the message was clear).

I went home and cried.

1985? I don't remember the date. I just remember the despair.



Well I was thinking more along the lines of his radical John Birch Society antics of his younger years. But yes I agree with you on this one though at the time I was all gung ho about it. He gave a similar reaming to the fathers in the Church as well.

But yes, I stand corrected.

Packer could be scary as prophet, seer and whatever else they think God is revealing to them.
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Re: Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

Post by _bcspace »

radical John Birch Society


Once again, I'll bet at this very moment you don't even know what the JBS stands for or what it's positions are. Of course now you'll perhaps look it up and if you do, tell us what's so egregious about what the JBS stands for.
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_Equality
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Re: Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

Post by _Equality »

sunstoned wrote:
Are you sure that was President Benson? I remember President Kimball placing more of an emphasis on women staying home, getting pregnant as soon as possible, and raising babies.



Yes, it was Benson for sure. I remember the talk. It caused quite a stir within our ward.


1987. Benson. http://fc.BYU.edu/jpages/ee/w_etb87.htm

From that talk:
We realize also that some of our choice sisters are widowed and divorced and that others find themselves in unusual circumstances where, out of necessity, they are required to work for a period of time. But these instances are the exception, not the rule.

In a home where there is an able-bodied husband, he is expected to be the breadwinner. Sometimes we hear of husbands who, because of economic conditions, have lost their jobs and expect their wives to go out of the home and work even though the husband is still capable of providing for his family. In these cases, we urge the husband to do all in his power to allow his wife to remain in the home caring for the children while he continues to provide for his family the best he can, even though the job be is able secure may not be ideal and family budgeting will have to be tighter.

Our beloved prophet Spencer W. Kimball had much to say about the role of mothers in the home and their callings and responsibilities. I am impressed tonight to share with you some of his inspired pronouncements. I fear that much of his counsel has gone unheeded, and families have suffered because of it. But I stand this evening as a second witness to the truthfulness of what President Spencer W. Kimball said. He spoke as a true prophet of God.

President Kimball declared: "Women are to take care of the family--the Lord has so stated--to be an assistant to the husband, to work with him, but not to earn the living, except in unusual circumstances. Men ought to be men indeed and earn the living under normal circumstances" (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 318 ).

President Kimball continues: "Too many mothers work away from home to furnish sweaters and music lessons and trips and fun for their children. Too many women spend their time in socializing, in politicking, in public services when they should be home to teach and train and receive and love their children into security" (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 319).

Remember the counsel of President Kimball to John and Mary: "Mary, you are to become a career woman in the greatest career on earth--that of homemaker, wife, and mother. It was never intended by the Lord that married women should compete with men in employment. They have a far greater and more important service to render.

Again President Kimball speaks: "The husband is expected to support his family and only in an emergency should a wife secure outside employment. Her place is in the home, to build the home into a haven of delight.

"Numerous divorces can be traced directly to the day when the wife left the home and went out into the world into employment. Two incomes raise the standard of living beyond its norm. Two spouses working prevent the complete and proper home life, break into the family prayers, create an independence which is not cooperative, causes distortion, limits the family, and frustrates the children already born" (Spencer W. Kimball, San Antonio Fireside, Dec. 3, 1977, pp. 9-10 ).

Finally President Kimball counsels: "I beg of you, you who could and should be bearing and rearing a family: Wives, come home from the typewriter, the laundry, the nursing, come home from the factory, the café. No career approaches in importance that of wife, homemaker, mother--cooking meals, washing dishes, making beds for one's precious husband and children. Come home, wives, to your husbands. Make home a heaven for them. Come home, wives, to your children, born and unborn. Wrap the motherly cloak about you and, unembarrassed, help in a major role to create the bodies for the immortal souls who anxiously await.

"When you have fully complemented your husband in home life and borne the children, growing up full of faith, integrity, responsibility, and goodness, then you have achieved your accomplishment supreme, without peer, and you will be the envy [of all] through time and eternity" (Spencer W. Kimball, San Antonio Fireside, Dec. 3, 1977, pp. 11-12).

President Kimball spoke the truth. His words are prophetic.


I included that last sentence lest anyone think this was just Benson expressing an opinion as a man. Or would the mopologist go so far as to say Benson, as Prophet, saying that a previous Prophet was speaking as a Prophet, was not speaking as a Prophet? This talk was published multiple times in official church publications, including a stand-alone pamphlet. No church leader has ever expressed any public disagreement with it or disavowed it in any way. Hinckley quoted from it favorably on more than one occasion.
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Re: Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

Post by _hatersinmyward »

@ 1:09 Packer states he has no more priesthood power than any other priesthood holder.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCtYFqns ... ure=relmfu

mormonmessages doesn't post out of context videos (supposedly)
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Re: Would the real Boyd Packer please stand up?

Post by _Buffalo »

Equality wrote:
1987. Benson. http://fc.BYU.edu/jpages/ee/w_etb87.htm

From that talk:
We realize also that some of our choice sisters are widowed and divorced and that others find themselves in unusual circumstances where, out of necessity, they are required to work for a period of time. But these instances are the exception, not the rule.

In a home where there is an able-bodied husband, he is expected to be the breadwinner. Sometimes we hear of husbands who, because of economic conditions, have lost their jobs and expect their wives to go out of the home and work even though the husband is still capable of providing for his family. In these cases, we urge the husband to do all in his power to allow his wife to remain in the home caring for the children while he continues to provide for his family the best he can, even though the job be is able secure may not be ideal and family budgeting will have to be tighter.

Our beloved prophet Spencer W. Kimball had much to say about the role of mothers in the home and their callings and responsibilities. I am impressed tonight to share with you some of his inspired pronouncements. I fear that much of his counsel has gone unheeded, and families have suffered because of it. But I stand this evening as a second witness to the truthfulness of what President Spencer W. Kimball said. He spoke as a true prophet of God.

President Kimball declared: "Women are to take care of the family--the Lord has so stated--to be an assistant to the husband, to work with him, but not to earn the living, except in unusual circumstances. Men ought to be men indeed and earn the living under normal circumstances" (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 318 ).

President Kimball continues: "Too many mothers work away from home to furnish sweaters and music lessons and trips and fun for their children. Too many women spend their time in socializing, in politicking, in public services when they should be home to teach and train and receive and love their children into security" (Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 319).

Remember the counsel of President Kimball to John and Mary: "Mary, you are to become a career woman in the greatest career on earth--that of homemaker, wife, and mother. It was never intended by the Lord that married women should compete with men in employment. They have a far greater and more important service to render.

Again President Kimball speaks: "The husband is expected to support his family and only in an emergency should a wife secure outside employment. Her place is in the home, to build the home into a haven of delight.

"Numerous divorces can be traced directly to the day when the wife left the home and went out into the world into employment. Two incomes raise the standard of living beyond its norm. Two spouses working prevent the complete and proper home life, break into the family prayers, create an independence which is not cooperative, causes distortion, limits the family, and frustrates the children already born" (Spencer W. Kimball, San Antonio Fireside, Dec. 3, 1977, pp. 9-10 ).

Finally President Kimball counsels: "I beg of you, you who could and should be bearing and rearing a family: Wives, come home from the typewriter, the laundry, the nursing, come home from the factory, the café. No career approaches in importance that of wife, homemaker, mother--cooking meals, washing dishes, making beds for one's precious husband and children. Come home, wives, to your husbands. Make home a heaven for them. Come home, wives, to your children, born and unborn. Wrap the motherly cloak about you and, unembarrassed, help in a major role to create the bodies for the immortal souls who anxiously await.

"When you have fully complemented your husband in home life and borne the children, growing up full of faith, integrity, responsibility, and goodness, then you have achieved your accomplishment supreme, without peer, and you will be the envy [of all] through time and eternity" (Spencer W. Kimball, San Antonio Fireside, Dec. 3, 1977, pp. 11-12).

President Kimball spoke the truth. His words are prophetic.


I included that last sentence lest anyone think this was just Benson expressing an opinion as a man. Or would the mopologist go so far as to say Benson, as Prophet, saying that a previous Prophet was speaking as a Prophet, was not speaking as a Prophet? This talk was published multiple times in official church publications, including a stand-alone pamphlet. No church leader has ever expressed any public disagreement with it or disavowed it in any way. Hinckley quoted from it favorably on more than one occasion.


The short version of Kimball's views on women:

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