Joe Geisner wrote:Read the comments. It is quite informative. The ones from "Mary Keller" provide us with a glimpse into the mind of a typical BYU Student of today.
What leads you to the conclusion that her position is typical of BYU students? Based on the comments I've found on numerous blogs and message boards (and Facebook), her position is decidedly atypical.
I think mak is correct, and for this I am decidedly encouraged for the future.
eschew obfuscation
"I'll let you believers in on a little secret: not only is the LDS church not really true, it's obviously not true." -Sethbag
Joe Geisner wrote:Read the comments. It is quite informative. The ones from "Mary Keller" provide us with a glimpse into the mind of a typical BYU Student of today.
What leads you to the conclusion that her position is typical of BYU students? Based on the comments I've found on numerous blogs and message boards (and Facebook), her position is decidedly atypical.
The thing is, BYU set the standard and this girl broke the rules. People like Mary Keller are simply supporting BYU's right to set standards. You need to decide if you will stand for righteousness, or stand with the world and mock the standards set by BYU. As a critic, I can stand and mock the standards, but if I was a TBM, I would be forced to support the BYU honor code and make comments similar to what Mary Keller said. As a TBM, you really have no right to criticize the rules.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
Joe Geisner wrote:The BYU leadership should be ashamed of themselves. They remind me of a bunch of old men looking at young ladies with prurient thoughts.
Susanna and the Elders (Book of the Apocrypha) wrote: The story is set in Babylon and concerns two Jewish elders appointed as judges who become enamored of the beautiful and pious Susanna, wife of the wealthy Joakim. After watching her bathe in the privacy of her garden they accost her, but she rejects their advances. To get back at her they accuse her of adultery with a young man in her garden, and on the basis of their false testimony she is condemned to death. At this point the young Daniel intervenes, claiming that the two accusers have not been cross-examined properly. Under his examination, they become confused, one stating that the alleged transgression occurred beneath a mastic tree, the other under an oak, and Susanna is thus exonerated and the two elders are put to death.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
Joe Geisner wrote:Read the comments. It is quite informative. The ones from "Mary Keller" provide us with a glimpse into the mind of a typical BYU Student of today.
What leads you to the conclusion that her position is typical of BYU students? Based on the comments I've found on numerous blogs and message boards (and Facebook), her position is decidedly atypical.
Atypical or not, is "Mary Keller" the prototypical student that the BYU Administration and the Brethren hope for and try to cultivate?
Mary Keller wrote:I’m tired of people not being able to saying anything about others not living up to the standards in the honor code that they signed and agreed to live.
It's called not being a douchebag.
I do cringe at Sister Keller's lament that BYU students don't go around more often handing out notes pointing out each others' infractions of the Honor Code to each other. The guy who wrote the original note is obviously a self-righteous prick, too. I wonder if he fancies himself a GA someday? I bet he worked hard to become an AP on his mission too...
I hope Mak is right, that Sister Keller's attitude re: pointing out each others' infractions is atypical.
ps: I still recall, much chagrined, how the topic of the statue of the Indian in the loincloth as a violation of BYU's modesty standards would come up from time to time in letters to the Daily Universe which appeared to have been written in all earnestness. Or the past brouhahas over artwork appearing at the BYU Museum or the HFAC or whatever.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
sock puppet wrote:Atypical or not, is "Mary Keller" the prototypical student that the BYU Administration and the Brethren hope for and try to cultivate?
I don't think so. The admin and the brethren that I've dealt with have always been sympathetic to things like this.
sock puppet wrote:Atypical or not, is "Mary Keller" the prototypical student that the BYU Administration and the Brethren hope for and try to cultivate?
I don't think so. The admin and the brethren that I've dealt with have always been sympathetic to things like this.
They don't encourage BYU students/members to point out to other BYU students/members when that other is doing something 'wrong'? To help the other get back in line?
The fact that this is even addressed, on any level, is insane. God, I'd hate to be a female and have to deal with this crap. It's a cloud that hangs over their head all the time, and frankly it's a man's issue if he can't control himself... Not the woman's issue.
- VRDRC
In the face of madness, rationality has no power - Xiao Wang, US historiographer, 2287 AD.
Every record...falsified, every book rewritten...every statue...has been renamed or torn down, every date...altered...the process is continuing...minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Ideology is always right.
sock puppet wrote:They don't encourage BYU students/members to point out to other BYU students/members when that other is doing something 'wrong'? To help the other get back in line?
Not really. The Honor Code states that a responsibility is to "Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code," but I don't think I've ever heard an administrator actually address the issue or insist this means telling people that they're doing it wrong. It's always the more zealous and the younger students that emphasize it and interpret it for everyone, not the admin.
