Advice on the best way to deal with people like this?

[_Tobin]

Oh, I'm very comfortable with the statement that Mormonism has nothing to do with racism. Has Mormonism had members that were racists? Yes. Were some prophets of the church and promoted policies and man-made doctrines that were racist? Most definitely. But as I stated, Mormonism is NOT racist. Just because there were some prominent bad actors in Mormonism in the past doesn't mean Mormonism itself is racist. The same can be said of Christianity. Even though there were many prominent Christians that were not only racists, but members of the KKK or slave holders and guilty of vicious attacks and murders of African Americans and other races - this does not mean Christianity is racist either. Mormon racists were never so callous or murderous towards others and yet you claim Mormonism is racist.

How do you rationalise the racist themed scriptural verses?

Please read what is in bold and underlined.

[_DrW]

I haven't read the entire Book yet. Currently I'm in the 10th chapter of Ether. But yes, I do. I find that statement from charity ironic, considering the Book of Mormon is a work in addition to the Bible, the difference being, just like you said, a history of ancient America.

When you get to the story of the Jaredite barges try and figure out where all the pooh went.

Or think about the chances that eight wooden telephone poles, launched into the sea off the coast of Oman, would all drift across the ocean and be found, together, on a coastline of the Western Hemisphere 344 days, or any other time, after being launched.

The Jaredite barges were made of wood and were not powered. Without power they could not be steered and would have behaved like big pieces of driftwood - just like the wooden telephone poles.

[_Bond James Bond]

Fictional books that take place in real places or use real people's names do not make them historical.

The Bible is plausibly historically accurate since Israel and Jerusalem and Egypt and Rome actually exist.

[_Equality]

2. Mormonism has nothing to do with racism. An astonishing claim, either based in ignorance (which I doubt) or a desire to obfuscate, deflect, and deny. I suggest you read this page from Mormon Think all the way through and then revise your statement. http://mormonthink.com/blackweb.htm#racistcomments

Oh, I'm very comfortable with the statement that Mormonism has nothing to do with racism. Has Mormonism had members that were racists? Yes. Were some prophets of the church and promoted policies and man-made doctrines that were racist? Most definitely. But as I stated, Mormonism is NOT racist. Just because there were some prominent bad actors in Mormonism in the past doesn't mean Mormonism itself is racist. The same can be said of Christianity. Even though there were many prominent Christians that were not only racists, but members of the KKK or slave holders and guilty of vicious attacks and murders of African Americans and other races - this does not mean Christianity is racist either. Mormon racists were never so callous or murderous towards others and yet you claim Mormonism is racist.

You seem to be equating "racism" with "institutionalized slavery" and "genocide." I simply pointed out that Mormon prophets have made racist comments in the past, that Mormon scripture contains racist doctrines, and that Mormonism had racist policies against black people until 1978. It's not just that "some Mormons were racist"; it's that Mormonism has scriptures unique to Mormonism that contain racist doctrines, and that Mormonism, in fact, had deeply racist policies for well over 100 years. In addition, Mormon prophets spoke out in official church gatherings against the "evils" of the civil rights movement. The fact that individual Mormon racists were not as "callous or murderous" as KKK members or slave holders does not negate the facts that show racism is endemic to Mormonism. Additionally, the Southern Baptists have acknowledged that they were wrong in the past to support slavery and opposed civil rights. Mormon leaders have never repudiated the racist comments of their predecessors or admitted that the priesthood ban was wrong. And while they have, without explanation, changed some of the racist language in the Book of Mormon, they have never repudiated the doctrines they taught for decades regarding blacks being inferior in the premortal existence or suffering the curse of Cain.

[Guest]

Or think about the chances that eight wooden telephone poles, launched into the sea off the coast of Oman, would all drift across the ocean and be found, together, on a coastline of the Western Hemisphere 344 days, or any other time, after being launched.

The Jaredite barges were made of wood and were not powered. Without power they could not be steered and would have behaved like big pieces of driftwood - just like the wooden telephone poles.

Yep, with the Gulf Stream currents, they would have all ended up on the Southwest coast of England. Hey, wait a minute. Do you think that maybe the lands of the Book of Mormon were actually the British Isles?

That would explain all the Roman ruins and artifacts there. They were actually Nephite.

[_Tobin]

Fictional books that take place in real places or use real people's names do not make them historical.

The Bible is plausibly historically accurate since Israel and Jerusalem and Egypt and Rome actually exist.

I assume by that statement you assume that the land mass west of Europe and east of Japan is fictional then? or do you believe that people did not really exist there long before Columbus discovered it?

[_Bond James Bond]

I assume by that statement you assume that the land mass west of Europe and east of Japan is fictional then? or do you believe that people did not really exist there long before Columbus discovered it?

Nice rhetoric.

Jersulem: 31°47′N 35°13′E
Zarahelma: ?

[_DrW]

Oh, I'm very comfortable with the statement that Mormonism has nothing to do with racism. Has Mormonism had members that were racists? Yes. Were some prophets of the church and promoted policies and man-made doctrines that were racist? Most definitely. But as I stated, Mormonism is NOT racist. Just because there were some prominent bad actors in Mormonism in the past doesn't mean Mormonism itself is racist. The same can be said of Christianity. Even though there were many prominent Christians that were not only racists, but members of the KKK or slave holders and guilty of vicious attacks and murders of African Americans and other races - this does not mean Christianity is racist either. Mormon racists were never so callous or murderous towards others and yet you claim Mormonism is racist.

So, the cursing of the Lamanites with a curse of blackness for their iniquity, as described in the Book of Mormon, is really not from God but from misguided men?

This is scripture. Joseph Smith claimed this scripture was of God. Therefore, one can reasonably conclude that the Mormon God saw blackness as a curse to be visited on the unrighteous.

Sounds pretty racist to me. Here are two offending passages from LDS Scripture:

Moses 7:8
8 For behold, the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people.

2 Nephi 5:21
21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

[_Tobin]

You seem to be equating "racism" with "institutionalized slavery" and "genocide." I simply pointed out that Mormon prophets have made racist comments in the past, that Mormon scripture contains racist doctrines, and that Mormonism had racist policies against black people until 1978. It's not just that "some Mormons were racist"; it's that Mormonism has scriptures unique to Mormonism that contain racist doctrines, and that Mormonism, in fact, had deeply racist policies for well over 100 years. In addition, Mormon prophets spoke out in official church gatherings against the "evils" of the civil rights movement. The fact that individual Mormon racists were not as "callous or murderous" as KKK members or slave holders does not negate the facts that show racism is endemic to Mormonism. Additionally, the Southern Baptists have acknowledged that they were wrong in the past to support slavery and opposed civil rights. Mormon leaders have never repudiated the racist comments of their predecessors or admitted that the priesthood ban was wrong. And while they have, without explanation, changed some of the racist language in the Book of Mormon, they have never repudiated the doctrines they taught for decades regarding blacks being inferior in the premortal existence or suffering the curse of Cain.

Well, then you fail to grasp what Mormonism is then. Prophets are NOT God. They only speak for God when God tells you they do; otherwise, they speak as any man and have all of their failings. Now I do agree that modern-day Mormon leaders should rightly acknowledge the racism that did exist and that those doctrines were not of God and were man-made and in error. But that is their problem, not mine. I have never accepted those doctrines were ever from God, nor do I know any member of the church today that would. Therefore, as I stated, Mormonism has nothing to do with racism and I don't care how many silly quotes you dig up stating that it was by so-and-so. It has nothing to do with Mormonism, just the racist bigot that said it.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

* cough *

Daheyshit!

* cough *

- VRDRC