No. Mormons believe that baptism provides the deceased with the opportunity to join the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but not the obligation. They don't know if the dead actually accept Jesus. “This is about putting names on the guest list,” says Givens. “They might not go the party, but they are given the chance.’
I like how he phrases the baptism as an opportunity to "accept Jesus".
And we wonder why people are offended by the practice.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
There can only be one God-authorized Church if one accepts that God is not a liar and a respecter of persons. One can not possibly be offended by this doctrine if one is intellectually honest because such a one realizes that it is of no effect if not true and very beneficial if true.
Of course there are those who bank on volatility of the masses and try to stir them up into being offended.....
bcspace wrote:There can only be one God-authorized Church if one accepts that God is not a liar and a respecter of persons. One can not possibly be offended by this doctrine if one is intellectually honest because such a one realizes that it is of no effect if not true and very beneficial if true.
Of course there are those who bank on volatility of the masses and try to stir them up into being offended.....
You should go find some holocaust survivors' descendents and tell them how intellectually dishonest they are for being offended. Let us know how that goes.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
bcspace wrote:There can only be one God-authorized Church if one accepts that God is not a liar and a respecter of persons.
Why? You operate with an a priori assumption. God could give people a chance to be inspired with ideas or doctrine that will assist them in their journey based on a variety of things. Mormonism may be good for some, Islam for others, Buddhism for others. Or maybe the deist have it right and God does not reveal anything and does not give a crap about any religion.
Regardless your comment reeks of Mormon dogma, piety and superiority.
One can not possibly be offended by this doctrine if one is intellectually honest because such a one realizes that it is of no effect if not true and very beneficial if true.
Of course they can. Even if they don't believe it means squat they can say they don't need LDS baptism. Try to walk a mile in someone else's shoes for once and broaden your narrow little Mormon mind.
Temple work is sort of interesting. Members can walk around telling people, "It's okay that you believe in a different religion." Then, after the person dies, they quietly go baptize them anyway. It strikes me as passive aggressive behavior.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
zeezrom wrote:Temple work is sort of interesting. Members can walk around telling people, "It's okay that you believe in a different religion." Then, after the person dies, they quietly go baptize them anyway. It strikes me as passive aggressive behavior.
It's always struck me as a waste of time.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
Elements of temple work appear to be pointless. For example, the 'things' you are required to know to enable you to get into heaven. If you remember them but aren't worthy then you aren't getting into the CK. If you don't remember them but you are fully worthy, then you won't be prevented from entering the CK because of a weak memory. They serve no purpose.
In terms of baptisms for the dead. There is no system for checking that the names being done are; real people; not been done previously; have the permission of their family. I have seen baptisms done with only the persons Christian name as information. 'Mary' had no birth date information, no parents etc. it was also on a blue card, meaning 'Mary' was a boy. Does this now mean all boys called 'Mary' who have died without the Gospel have now been added to the Mormon guest list?
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator