Romney: Let Detroit Go Bankrupt

[_moksha]

The US Defense Industry is way to specialized these days for the Big Three to really be able to do much of anything usefull. They simply don't have the capabilities or range of expertise to do much beyond building civilian transportation.

Well, if faced with simply going out of business, they might decide to retrofit and do something else. Building tanks would at least help them abandon the idea of planned obsolescence. In that case, the defense industry should get back to the good old American basics of looking for the Union Label, as well as buying American.

[_Angus McAwesome]

The US Defense Industry is way to specialized these days for the Big Three to really be able to do much of anything usefull. They simply don't have the capabilities or range of expertise to do much beyond building civilian transportation.

Well, if faced with simply going out of business, they might decide to retrofit and do something else. Building tanks would at least help them abandon the idea of planned obsolescence. In that case, the defense industry should get back to the good old American basics of looking for the Union Label, as well as buying American.

You're not reading what I said, Moksha. Ford, GM, and Chrysler do not have the ability to build anything other than commercial vehicles. They couldn't build a tank if thyey wanted to simply due to lack of facilities, access to materials, and engineering and manufacturing staff capable of building them.

For example, the current MBT used by the US Army and Marine Corps, the M1A1/A2/A2 SEP Abrams, is built by General Dynamics. General Dynamics only builds the chassis, sensor suite, and final assembly of the tank. The 120mm gun used for it's primary armament was designed by Rheinmetall AG of German and is manufactured under license by Watervliet Arsenal in New Jersey. The engine and transmission are made by Honeywell and Allison respectively. The armor itself can only be produced by two steel mills in the US.

None of the Big Three have the capability of designing and manufacturing any of that, let alone the facilities to manufacture it.

[_Angus McAwesome]

Almost forgot to address this bit here...

In that case, the defense industry should get back to the good old American basics of looking for the Union Label, as well as buying American.

In most cases the Department of Defense does buy American, in some cases to the detriment of cost and effectiveness. A very good example of that is current shenanigans going on with the US Air Force trying to procure a replacement for their aging fleet of aerial refueling aircraft like the KC-10A. The USAF originally had a run off between Boeing Aerospace and the European aerospace firm Airbus. Hands down, the Airbus offering was the better buy, longer range, better capacity, and it cost less money. Even better the Airbus offering would have done wonders for cementing our recently shakey ties with a few of our allies in NATO. Instead, we ended up getting a contract with Boeing because the Senate wanted to "buy American", and that contract has since been over nulled as it's come to light that Boeign engaged in some less than ethical back channel deal making in order to get their offering, a modified Boeing 767, to be the contract winner. So instead of the USAF getting the aircraft they wanted that fit their requirements perfectly and under budget, or even getting the next best thing at a higher cost, the USAF is still stuck with the KC-10A and their ability to maintain air mobility and long range strike capability in the event of a serious war is at risk.

All because someone decided "buy American" was more sensible then "best interests of National Security".

The other issue with "buy American" is a lot of our equipment must maintain a certain level of compatibility with our allies, especially with NATO. Above I mentioned the M1 Abrams MBT, which since the A1 upgrade has been armed with a 120mm smooth-bore cannon designed by Rheinemetall AG in Germany. The previous gun was a 105mm gun designed by a UK firm. In both cases those guns are the primary armament of almost every MBT fielded our major NATO allies, though the British use a rifled barrel on their licensed manufacture. This means in the event of a war all three of us can use the same ammunition in our tanks.

Short version is that 1. there isn't any single company that can design and manufacture large scale systems like Tanks, Aircraft, and Ships, and 2. Buying American isn't always the best idea for either maintain strategic relations with our allies or for receiving the best equipment for our military.

Edit: Did a little looking about and it turns out the UK upgraded the Challenger II to the the Rheinmetally AG 120mm Smooth-bore.

[_Droopy]

In that case, the defense industry should get back to the good old American basics of looking for the Union Label, as well as buying American.

I'm glad you finally got around to the Union Label Moksha, because the perceived necessity of the bailouts are rooted in decades of economically irrational and unsustainable Union contract demands, and it is the Unions, for all intents and purposes, to whom the bailout is really directed.

We are using taxpayer money to bailout the UAW and its greedy workers ensconced on a gravy train that has finally (but not for the first time) gone off the tracks. The disciplines of the free market should be given full reign to clear the economic deadwood here and determine the future form and structure of the U.S. auto industry such that it is both sustainable and ultimately serves the consumer, and not narrow producer interests.

[_Brackite]

This looks like it is coming back to bite Mitt Romney in the butt in the upcoming Michigan Primary.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/20 ... 08-vs-2012

[_Droopy]

I agree too. Romney is at his best when he isn't pandering to the religious right.

Well, that's really all he can do, as he's really apparently never been a particularly staunch of it, which would only be consistent with the fact that he's never really been a consistent or philosophically dedicated part of "the Right' at all.

[_Droopy]

I tend to agree.....

My perspective on Detroit would be to just put Snake Plisskin in charge of the whole thing. In fact, I think he'd be a great alternative to Pelosi for the Democrats.

Hey, it worked for New York.

Can you imagine this guy running the "fast and furious" program?


Obama's next Attorney General?

[_Droopy]

Actually, this guy looks like the kind of stuff that came our of Jeremiah Wright's mouth those twenty years Obama sat in his pews.

[_moksha]

I agree too. Romney is at his best when he isn't pandering to the religious right.

Well, that's really all he can do, as he's really apparently never been a particularly staunch of it, which would only be consistent with the fact that he's never really been a consistent or philosophically dedicated part of "the Right' at all.

Well, blame the Church. They frown on tatoos, SS or otherwise.

[_krose]

Actually, this guy looks like the kind of stuff that came our of Jeremiah Wright's mouth those twenty years Obama sat in his pews.

So what was the stuff coming out of Wright's mouth during those 20 years? Specific, verified quotes, please.