The Top Ten and Only Reasons to be a True Believer

[_Franktalk]

How does one know it is the HG and not just your body creating the expereince. This is a topic you and others have avioded like the plague.

I think not. I have been very clear about the details. If you choose not to see that, that is your choice.

[_Tobin]

...Feelings are impossible to understand and are terrible way to determine the truth...

since when?

ever watch star trek?...the real hero was the captain...captain kirk.
not Bones, the passionate one
not Scotty, the fighter
not even Mr Spock

it was Kirk...the guy who encompassed the best of all these traits because he knew when and where to use them...and always trusted those intangible talents known as his "gut feeling".

There is truth in that

your method is very narrow and limiting.

It is an important distinction. I firmly believe that if you don't know God and are a Mormon, you are just fooling yourself (and may eventually be an ex-Mormon). Mormonism is a rather pointless belief if you do not have an actual experience with God that is substantive. There are a lot of strong arguments and counter indications that many commonly held beliefs by Mormons are not so true and that perceptions held my many members about the church and its "truthfulness" are not supported by fact.

The truth is, there is a God. And God set this whole thing in motion. Beyond that, everything else is in varying degrees of doubt. I would encourage anyone that is Mormon to cling to God and do what God tells them to do. That is the best way to approach Mormonism and discover what is or is not true for yourself.

[_Themis]

How does one know it is the HG and not just your body creating the expereince. This is a topic you and others have avioded like the plague.

I think not. I have been very clear about the details. If you choose not to see that, that is your choice.

Where? You keep saying you have been very clear yet you won't post or at least direct me to which post you think is very clear on it. Why do you keep avoiding this? So do you then think the spiritual experience cannot be created by the body? If yes, on what basis do you make this belief?

[_Themis]

It is an important distinction. I firmly believe that if you don't know God and are a Mormon, you are just fooling yourself (and may eventually be an ex-Mormon). Mormonism is a rather pointless belief if you do not have an actual experience with God that is substantive. There are a lot of strong arguments and counter indications that many commonly held beliefs by Mormons are not so true and that perceptions held my many members about the church and its "truthfulness" are not supported by fact.

The truth is, there is a God. And God set this whole thing in motion. Beyond that, everything else is in varying degrees of doubt. I would encourage anyone that is Mormon to cling to God and do what God tells them to do. That is the best way to approach Mormonism and discover what is or is not true for yourself.

Perhaps you could be more specific on what you define an expereince with God to be. Most people's spiritual expereinces do not involve visions of divine beings.

[_Tobin]

It is an important distinction. I firmly believe that if you don't know God and are a Mormon, you are just fooling yourself (and may eventually be an ex-Mormon). Mormonism is a rather pointless belief if you do not have an actual experience with God that is substantive. There are a lot of strong arguments and counter indications that many commonly held beliefs by Mormons are not so true and that perceptions held my many members about the church and its "truthfulness" are not supported by fact.

The truth is, there is a God. And God set this whole thing in motion. Beyond that, everything else is in varying degrees of doubt. I would encourage anyone that is Mormon to cling to God and do what God tells them to do. That is the best way to approach Mormonism and discover what is or is not true for yourself.

Perhaps you could be more specific on what you define an expereince with God to be. Most people's spiritual expereinces do not involve visions of divine beings.

And that is the problem. As Carl Sagan stated, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." If you are going to be a Mormon and claim to know that the church is true for example (and yes, I really don't know what that means either), then you should have some evidence to back that up. I really can't stomach statements to the effect that they "felt" it was true. In fact, the Mormon that states that doesn't know that church is true at all. They believe it is true, or better stated, they hope it is true. It is wishful thinking and an useless statement.

[_Themis]

And that is the problem. As Carl Sagan stated, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." If you are going to be a Mormon and claim to know that the church is true for example (and yes, I really don't know what that means either), then you should have some evidence to back that up. I really can't stomach statements to the effect that they "felt" it was true. In fact, the Mormon that states that doesn't know that church is true at all. They believe it is true, or better stated, they hope it is true. It is wishful thinking and an useless statement.

Could you be more specific on what you define an expereince with God to be?

[_subgenius]

It is an important distinction. I firmly believe that if you don't know God and are a Mormon, you are just fooling yourself (and may eventually be an ex-Mormon). Mormonism is a rather pointless belief if you do not have an actual experience with God that is substantive. There are a lot of strong arguments and counter indications that many commonly held beliefs by Mormons are not so true and that perceptions held my many members about the church and its "truthfulness" are not supported by fact.

The truth is, there is a God. And God set this whole thing in motion. Beyond that, everything else is in varying degrees of doubt. I would encourage anyone that is Mormon to cling to God and do what God tells them to do. That is the best way to approach Mormonism and discover what is or is not true for yourself.

but what does that have to do with your statement:
"...Feelings are impossible to understand and are terrible way to determine the truth..."

are you suggesting that feelings are incompatible with the truth in this context?
are you suggesting that feelings are an obstacle for one's knowledge of God?
are you suggesting that feelings are incompatible with God?

[_subgenius]

And that is the problem. As Carl Sagan stated, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." If you are going to be a Mormon and claim to know that the church is true for example (and yes, I really don't know what that means either), then you should have some evidence to back that up. I really can't stomach statements to the effect that they "felt" it was true. In fact, the Mormon that states that doesn't know that church is true at all. They believe it is true, or better stated, they hope it is true. It is wishful thinking and an useless statement.

[_Tobin]

but what does that have to do with your statement:
"...Feelings are impossible to understand and are terrible way to determine the truth..."

are you suggesting that feelings are incompatible with the truth in this context?
are you suggesting that feelings are an obstacle for one's knowledge of God?
are you suggesting that feelings are incompatible with God?

Feelings are transitional. What I feel today about someone or something may change tomorrow. What I know (provided it is true) about someone however will not change. I may find out additional information that may enhance what I know, but it is absolute solid. It is something I can state definitively.

When I was a Mormon before and during my mission, I felt Mormonism was true. After my mission, I felt it wasn't true. I felt that way for over 10 years, then I had an experience with God that not only changed how I felt about Mormonism - but it made me certain there was a God. Now, I still can't state that I know Mormonism is true (I really don't know what that means). I can state that I know there is a God though. And I believe, that is really the point of Mormonism anyway.

Anyway, if you feel that there is a God and that Mormonism can lead you there, that is good. However, knowing there is a God is much better.

[_Themis]

And that is the problem. As Carl Sagan stated, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." If you are going to be a Mormon and claim to know that the church is true for example (and yes, I really don't know what that means either), then you should have some evidence to back that up. I really can't stomach statements to the effect that they "felt" it was true. In fact, the Mormon that states that doesn't know that church is true at all. They believe it is true, or better stated, they hope it is true. It is wishful thinking and an useless statement.

Could you be more specific on what you define an expereince with God to be?

Why is it when you ask for real information on what people mean they start to ignore the question. LOL