G.Palmer Mormon Discussions Podcast on Joseph Smith Sexual Allegations

[_Mary]

Law wasn't a whistleblower. He was a troublemaker.

Tobin, I sincerely don't get this from what I am reading. Have you actually read any of the articles or listened to the podcast?

[_Chap]

Here is a pro-Mormon source with the full text of the Nauvoo Expositor, put out by William Law and his friends, which caused Joseph Smith to have the printing press destroyed. Since it is posted by a Mormon apologetic organisation, any member of the church may obviously read it quite safely:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Primary_source ... _Full_Text

Perhaps it would be a good idea to cite text from it to evidence William Law's moral turpitude?

These bits are interesting. The point made in the first quotation was, as we now know, completely true, and made known a crucial fact of which most members of the church had been kept in deliberate ignorance. The second has not to my knowledge been in its essence disputed, and suggests that Joseph Smith was acting, as alleged, in an autocratic manner that violated canons of fairness that he had himself laid down, and which had been upheld by the church.

Affidavits

I hereby certify that Hyrum Smith did, (in his office) read to me a certain written document, which he said was a revelation from God, he said that he was with Joseph when it was received. He afterwards gave me the document to read, and I took it to my house, and read it, and showed it to my wife, and returned it next day. The revelation (so called) authorized certain men to have more wives than one at a time, in this world and in the world to come. It said this was the law, and commanded Joseph to enter into the law.-And also that he should administer to others. Several other items were in the revelation, supporting the above doctrines.

Walmart. LAW
State of Illinois,
Hancock County,
I Robert D. Foster, certify that the above certificate was sworn to before me, as true in substance, this fourth day of May A.D. 1844.
ROBERT D. FOSTER J.P.
I certify that I read the revelation referred to in the above affidavit of my husband, it sustained in strong terms the doctrine of more wives that one at a time, in this world, and in the next, it authorized some to have to the number of ten, and set forth that those women who would not allow their husbands to have more wives than one should be under condemnation before God.
JANE LAW
Sworn and subscribed befoore me this fourth day of May, A.D. 1844.
ROBET D. FOSTER, J.P.

To all whom it may Concern:

Forasmuch as the public mind hath been much agitated by a course of procedure in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, by a number of persons declaring aginst certain doctrines and practices therein, (among whom I am One,) it is but meet that I should give my reasons, at least in part, as a cause that hath led me to declare myself. In the latter part of the summer, 1843, the Patriarch, Hyrum Smith, did in the High Council, of which I was a member, introduce what he said was a revelation given through the Prophet; that the said Hyrum Smith did essay to read the said revealtion in the said Council, that according to his reading there was contained the following doctrines; lst the sealing up of persons to eternal life, against all sins, save that of sheding innocent blood or of consenting thereto; 2nd, the doctrine of a plurality of wives, or marrying virgins; that "David and Solomon had many wives, yet in this they sinned not save in the matter of Uriah. This revelation with other evidence, that the aforesaid heresies were taught and practiced in the Church; determined me to leave the office of first counsellor to the president of the Church at Nauvoo, inasmuch as I dared not teach or administer such laws. And further deponent saith not.
AUSTIN COWLES.
State of Illinois, }ss.
Hancock County, }
To all whom it may concern I hereby certify that the above certificate was sworn and subscribed before me, this fourth day of May, 1844.
ROBERT D. FOSTER, J.P.
THE EXPOSITOR.
FRIDAY, JUNE 7, 1844
SYLVESTER EMMONS, Editor

On thursday evening, the 18th of April, there was a council called, unknown to the Church, which tried, condemned, and cut off brothers Walmart. Law, Wilson Law, and sister Law, (Walmart's. wife,) brother R. D. Foster, and one brother Smith, with whom we are unacquainted; which we contend is contrary to the book of Doctrine and Covenants, for our law condemnest no man until he is heard. We abhor and protest against any council or tribunal in this Church, which will not suffer the accused to stand in its midst and plead their own cause. If an Agrippa would suffer a Paul, whose eloquence surpassed, as it were, the eloquence of men, to stand before him, and plead his own cause, why should Joseph, with others, refuse to hear individuals in their own defence?--We answer, it is because the court fears the atrocity of its crimes will be exposed to public gaze. We wish the public to thoroughly understand the nature of this court, and judge of the legality of its acts as seemeth them good.

On Monday, the 15th of April, brother R.D. Foster had a notice served on him to appear before the High Council on Saturday following, the 20th, and answer to charges prefered against him by Joseph Smith. On Saturday, while Mr. Foster was preparing to take his witnesses, 4l in number, to the council-room, that he might make good his charges against Joseph, president Marks notified him that the trial had been on Thursday evening, before the 15th, and that he was cut off from the Church; and that same council cut off the brother Laws', sister Law, and brother Smith, and all without their knowledge. They were not notified, neither did they dream of any such thing being done, for William Law had sent Joseph and some of the Twelve, special word that he desired an investigation before the Church o General Conference, on the 6th of Ap'l. The court, however, was a tribunal possessing no power to try Walmart. Law, who was called by special Revelation, to stand as counsellor to the President of the Church. (Joseph,) which was twice ratified by General Conferences, assembled at Nauvoo, for Brigham Young, one of the Twelve, presided, whose duty it was not but the President of the High Council-See Book of Doctrine and Covenants, page 87

[_Tobin]

Law wasn't a whistleblower. He was a troublemaker.

Tobin, I sincerely don't get this from what I am reading. Have you actually read any of the articles or listened to the podcast?

Yes. I also listened to Grant's discussion about resigning from the church. I know Grant feels that there is truth in the church and why he was reluctant to leave. In fact, I agree with many of the positions Grant has taken in the past. BUT, I believe he's let his pride get in the way and has done some damage. I think if he really understood that, he'd change his approach. I know he feels he is right. I've been there and I truly understand that, but he really should try speaking to God about it instead of charting his own course.

[_Kishkumen]

I am sorry to hear that Grant was bullied out of the LDS Church.

I think that Grant bullied himself out of the church. And besides, I haven't heard much from him lately. But now with a new craving for publicity he is back among the exmormon faithful, basking in his glory as martyr. Not bad for 15 minutes of fame.

Of course you feel that way, why me. You are among the most compassionate and understanding people I have ever met, for a brick.

[_Drifting]

I am sorry to hear that Grant was bullied out of the LDS Church.

I think that Grant bullied himself out of the church.

How did he manage that?
I thought the problem was him publishing the truth.

[_harmony]

How did he manage that?
I thought the problem was him publishing the truth.

And then had the unmitigated gall to actually TALK about it. Sheesh. The man has no shame.

[_just me]

How did he manage that?
I thought the problem was him publishing the truth.

And then had the unmitigated gall to actually TALK about it. Sheesh. The man has no shame.

Exactly. Everyone knows that the right thing to do is to turn a blind eye to abuse of power. Duh!

[_Mary]

Why me, it seems to me that in some ways William Law is the ideal apostate. He spent most of his life trying to forget that he was ever Mormon, and refused to speak about it. He didn't (as with John C Bennett) write or try to publish memoirs about his experience or go round the various States talking about his ordeal. He didn't try to make money off the back of Mormonism. He just got on with his life with quiet dignity. Or so it seems to me anyway..

[_Runtu]

Exactly. Everyone knows that the right thing to do is to turn a blind eye to abuse of power. Duh!

The thing about Palmer's book is that, with the exception of the Golden Pot chapter (which I thought was by far the weakest part), his book was mostly a concise summary of other people's findings. Nothing in there was new to people who have studied the issues, but it was written for a non-scholarly audience, so it was presented clearly and plainly. I think that's why the book is so threatening to people. Average Mormons will not spend time and effort reading, say, New Approaches to the Book of Mormon, but they can pick up Palmer's thin little book and get everything they ought to know.

[_Runtu]

Why me, it seems to me that in some ways William Law is the ideal apostate. He spent most of his life trying to forget that he was ever Mormon, and refused to speak about it. He didn't (as with John C Bennett) write or try to publish memoirs about his experience or go round the various States talking about his ordeal. He didn't try to make money off the back of Mormonism. He just got on with his life with quiet dignity. Or so it seems to me anyway..

That's how it seems to me, too. The worst that can be said about William Law is that parts of the Expositor used the kind of purple rhetorical style that was common among exposé writers of that era. But we were taught that he was the blackest villain, who lied and stirred up the hearts of others to murder Joseph Smith. He doesn't make a very good villain if you actually know anything about him.