OMG! It's published in a book. That's how we know it is real!!!
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
Equality wrote:If true, they were cowards, not worthy of leading anything, let alone a church that claims to be the one true church of Jesus Christ on earth.
They are cowards for not wanting to directly challenge something they believed to have been God's will without feeling they had been compelled by revelation to do so? That makes men who believed themselves to be conduits of God's will on earth cowards?
Equality wrote:If true, they were cowards, not worthy of leading anything, let alone a church that claims to be the one true church of Jesus Christ on earth.
They are cowards for not wanting to directly challenge something they believed to have been God's will without feeling they had been compelled by revelation to do so? That makes men who believed themselves to be conduits of God's will on earth cowards?
My statement was in response to the argument that the Brethren really wanted to change the policy but didn't because there was opposition in the South to reversing the priesthood ban. If that was the case, yes, they were cowards. If there really was no revelation and God had nothing to do with the ban, and it was based only on the "speculations" of racist individuals (as, apparently, the church is now claiming through its newsroom today), then the so-called leaders of the church of Jesus Christ were cowards. If they had been brave, they would have said "hey, the Jesus we all know and love and worship couldn't possibly support this crazy priesthood ban based on race. Let's change it. If we are wrong, God will understand, or He can give us a revelation and explain why we should keep it in place." Pretty simple, really. If the people leading the church today weren't cowards and bigots, they could do the same with respect to marriage equality. Instead, they advance their own prejudices and pretend it is God's will (without ever citing any specific revelation so they can maintain plausible deniability).
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain "The LDS church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
maklelan wrote: That makes men who believed themselves to be conduits of God's will on earth cowards?
I like how you "qualified" the prophets and apostles. Not a definitive statement of personal belief in them as prophet seers and revelators, but that they believed themselves as such.
It is better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener at war.
Some of us, on the other hand, actually prefer a religion that includes some type of correlation with reality. ~Bill Hamblin
maklelan wrote: That makes men who believed themselves to be conduits of God's will on earth cowards?
I like how you "qualified" the prophets and apostles. Not a definitive statement of personal belief in them as prophet seers and revelators, but that they believed themselves as such.
That reminds me of an exchange:
Larry King : So would you call yourself a prophet? Gordon : I am sustained as such.
"Well, these guys say I am a prophet ..."
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
SteelHead wrote:That guy ilyan over at mad is working hard to undo 30 years of proclamations of the contrary. He represents the thinking of the majority of the church pre ban, and just can't grok the real underpinnings of his ramblings.
Fun to watch though....
That guy can't grok a number of things. I took a look at some of his postings including a bizarre followup posted on a completely unrelated thread after the original thread on Bott had been locked. Here he thinks he's come up with the ultimate answer to anyone who thinks his ideas are racist, because, hey maybe blacks were really MORE valiant and Satan woulda messed 'em up so bad that they chose to "sit this one out" and not get the priesthood because they were so understanding and noble, and so maybe it's whites who are inferior, you know? So how can he be a racist if he can come up with this, right?
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."