Thanks, LDS church! Californians now support gay marriage

[_Drifting]

Because I opposed Prop 8 as a libertarian, only to change when the church asked for a contribution, my views are simply that marriage is a religious sacrament and that government should get out of the marriage business. If you want to get married, go to your church. Until then, pastors have a right to argue for their brand of marriage so long as government licenses pastors to perform such.

So, do you also agree that religions should stay out of government matters, such as immigration policy?

[_Yahoo Bot]

So, do you also agree that religions should stay out of government matters, such as immigration policy?

I have never been on record as saying religion should stay out of politics. My pending Rutgers paper argues the opposite. You have totally misread my post.

The libertarian philosophy supports the right of people to voluntarily band together to voice political views. The libertarian philosophy opposes government licensing pastors to perform marriages.

[_subgenius]

Would this overwhelming support in California for gay marriage have happened without the church's meddling and bringing the issue to the forefront of people's minds? I don't think so. Thanks to the Mormon church, a wave of pro-gay marriage sentiment is sweeping the nation! Thanks Tommy!

nice pipe dream but a bad display of reasoning (as in retarded).
california elected arnold and re-elected brown, went bankrupt, and recently voted to mandate condom use in all porn films.......not exactly a hot bed of intellect and certainly not representative of the national attitude. After all they could only turn over the voter mandate with an actual gay judge who coincidentally wanted to marry.
More importantly, 7 states doth a "sweep" make...there are more states that actually have bona-fide constitutional bans on gay marriage, your sweep barely hits 14 percent of the states......yawn.
no matter how the LGBT rise in popularity due to increasing exertion of political power and lowest common denominator marketing, they will eventually regress to the status that many "fads" have and are destined to do.......like cabbage patch dolls....pet rocks.
The cause has no long lasting virtue, it has no integrity, it has no substantial foundation and thus has no real social durability....ultimately time is on my side, not theirs.....which is further illustrated by their haste.

but its interesting to see you unashamed in your support for incestuous marriage as well.

[_Drifting]

So, do you also agree that religions should stay out of government matters, such as immigration policy?

I have never been on record as saying religion should stay out of politics. My pending Rutgers paper argues the opposite. You have totally misread my post.

The libertarian philosophy supports the right of people to voluntarily band together to voice political views. The libertarian philosophy opposes government licensing pastors to perform marriages.

My apologies, if i misuderstood it was not intentional.

For clarity here is what I thought you said, put into my simple way of posting:
- that government should not meddle in religious matters e.g. marriage.

So I was just checking if you held true the reverse of that:
- that religion should not meddle in government matters e.g. illegal immigration

It seems you are not willing to impose the same restrictions on religion as those you wish to place on government. Sounds a bit two-faced to me.

[_subgenius]

So, do you also agree that religions should stay out of government matters, such as immigration policy?

I am pretty sure the "state" would lose the argument in holding the title of original ownership for marriage.
correct me if i am wrong, but is not the origin of marriage, in terms of our European history, religious?
it was not until the protestant reformation that marriage "shifted" to the state.
ironically it was Christianity through the middle ages that popularized "free choice" of a marriage partner.

...just sayin

[_subgenius]

It seems you are not willing to impose the same restrictions on religion as those you wish to place on government. Sounds a bit two-faced to me.

by what reasoning would you use to support the idea that the same restriction(s) should be placed on religion as are placed on government?
One is not a goose and the other a gander.

[_Drifting]

It seems you are not willing to impose the same restrictions on religion as those you wish to place on government. Sounds a bit two-faced to me.

by what reasoning would you use to support the idea that the same restriction(s) should be placed on religion as are placed on government?
One is not a goose and the other a gander.

Hi subby,

I'm saying that Yahoo is being two-faced when he holds the view that government should not meddle in religion but that it is acceptable for religion (not a group of individuals) to meddle in government.

Personally, I think the Government is perfectly entitled to oversee the activities of religion in its country; and that religion is perfectly entitled to voice its opinion about the Government, whilst complying with that Governments laws and codes.

I also find the Church two-faced on this topic. In that it officially states that it does not get involved in politics; whilst at the same time getting actively involved in politics; including having two full time, tithing paid, proffessional political lobbyists running around the hill trying to leverage the Church's position whenever, wherever and however they can.

[_Bond James Bond]

no matter how the LGBT rise in popularity due to increasing exertion of political power and lowest common denominator marketing, they will eventually regress to the status that many "fads" have and are destined to do.......like cabbage patch dolls....pet rocks.

Everyday tolerant kids are becoming voters while older less tolerant voters are dying. Gay marriage will be United States law within 25 years. Support for gay marriage is growing and at an increased rate. Washington and Maryland this year and New Jersey too if Chris Krispie Christie hadn't vetoed the legislation.

California:


National poll average:

[_Drifting]

no matter how the LGBT rise in popularity due to increasing exertion of political power and lowest common denominator marketing, they will eventually regress to the status that many "fads" have and are destined to do.......like cabbage patch dolls....pet rocks...Blacks without the Priesthood...Polygamous marriages...blood atonement rituals...open book accounting...

subby may have a point..............

[_Milesius]

When I pointed out that many scholars argue [gender is socially constructed] (and gave some explanation to support my point)...

Not worth a tinker's dam.

he dismissively replied, "I could easily defeat that argument in a focus group." It was a fascinating glimpse into the mind of a lawyer/lobbyist, which is strikingly different from my training as an academic.

Pseudo-academic.