RayAgostini wrote: Thirty-seven years after joining the Church, and leaving it in 1987, I still seem to be a "DNA Mormon". The most peace and assurance I've ever known, was sitting in Mormon chapel, with friends and family, and feeling that mysterious "burning in the bosom", which seemed to "say", "this is the way, walk ye in it".
(PS: I'll probably not be back for a while, as I'll be very busy with work, but in the meantime - take care.)
It doesn't seem that Oliver was lying in his writing. He seems to be convinced that he had a wonderful experience. What is strange is how the critics use his dirty little affair statement and never consider his experiences and testimonies. I suppose that we all cherry pick our way through faith and lack of faith. You are a good guy ray and I have known you from the boards for quite some time. I wish you luck in your life and in your coming to terms with faith.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
Polygamy-Porter wrote:I am curious how you would react to one of your own children leaving the Mormon church, or one of their spouses?
I applaud you for leaving and not being a hypocrite. To me, hypocrisy is lots worse than just being out.
I realise you see things in a clear cut, black or white, right or wrong type of way. I guess your profession propagates an already natural inclination to do so.
However, with peoples lives it is never that clear cut. I navigate my way through being an attending but disbelieving member. With the exception of the people that need to know my views, beliefs, opinions etc I do so relatively covertly. I do so out of moral support for some of the important people in my life.
You may see that as weak hypocrisy. I do not share your view.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.” Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric
"One, two, three...let's go shopping!" Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
Lo though I drive through the Valley of Shadow (just south of Salt Lake County), I shall fear no evil since:
1. I am heavily insured 2. Industrial strength bumper on the cab 3. I took the defensive driving class 4. Been combining both spinach and Vegamite in my diet 5. My time on these discussion boards has allowed me to drive in both lanes
I think Ray has done or doing something many exmormons experience. After you leave you still have these lingering thoughts, sometimes humming a Mormon hymn. I left but I replaced it with what I believe is a more intellectally satisfying christianity, reading the lives and works of Bonhoeffer, C S Lewis, Chesterton and others. LDSFaq likes to claim there are smart people in the LDS church. However when you check those that appear in Mormonscholarstestify.com, the great majority of them were born in the church. You do not seem to have found another home Ray. I imagine driving a taxi could be both interesting and lonely but meet some interesting people. I can understand how you would miss that feeling of community you find in the LDS church.
Hilary Clinton " I won the places that represent two-thirds of America's GDP.I won in places are optimistic diverse, dynamic, moving forward"
I sometimes do as well. This past week I was in Provo. I converted to the LDS Church at BYU and I still think it is a wonderful place with wonderful people. I'm tempted to just ignore what I have learned about the Book of Mormon which causes me to believe it is false and just dive back in. Then I get back to Indiana and go to Catholic mass and for some reason I just feel that is where I should be. Religion can bring up a bunch of complicated feelings, but I just feel my Catholic experience is more authentic than what I find at an LDS sacrament meeting. I don't worry much about it in regards to eternal consequences however -- I tend to believe that if you believe Christ died for your sins and rose from the dead that you are on the same road as everyone else with some of us being a little further ahead than others. There are Catholics who are ahead of some Mormons and Mormons who are ahead of some Catholics and then throw the Protestants and Orthodox in the mix. The road through Christ is heading in the same direction. And there are non-believers in Christ who might be on the road without realizing it.
aussieguy55 wrote:I think Ray has done or doing something many exmormons experience. After you leave you still have these lingering thoughts, sometimes humming a Mormon hymn. I left but I replaced it with what I believe is a more intellectally satisfying christianity, reading the lives and works of Bonhoeffer, C S Lewis, Chesterton and others. LDSFaq likes to claim there are smart people in the LDS church. However when you check those that appear in Mormonscholarstestify.com, the great majority of them were born in the church. You do not seem to have found another home Ray. I imagine driving a taxi could be both interesting and lonely but meet some interesting people. I can understand how you would miss that feeling of community you find in the LDS church.
I don't think that it has to do with community. One can find a nice catholic community and one can find many organizations in the catholic faith to join and find community. I think that there is something more to it than community. It is the lingering feeling that the LDS church does have the truth and it is this that lingers in the mind.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
BartBurk wrote: There are Catholics who are ahead of some Mormons and Mormons who are ahead of some Catholics and then throw the Protestants and Orthodox in the mix. The road through Christ is heading in the same direction. And there are non-believers in Christ who might be on the road without realizing it.
You are different now than you were a couple of years ago on the catholic apologetic site. I think that if one can find god in catholicism and feels that that is their place, I believe that god knows that this is a good place for that person to be.
But the feeling of truth when it comes to Mormonism, is very strong for exmembers and for members.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
BartBurk wrote: There are Catholics who are ahead of some Mormons and Mormons who are ahead of some Catholics and then throw the Protestants and Orthodox in the mix. The road through Christ is heading in the same direction. And there are non-believers in Christ who might be on the road without realizing it.
You are different now than you were a couple of years ago on the catholic apologetic site. I think that if one can find god in catholicism and feels that that is their place, I believe that god knows that this is a good place for that person to be.
But the feeling of truth when it comes to Mormonism, is very strong for exmembers and for members.
Perhaps I am just less strident, but seriously I don't think you are able to judge how exmormons feel about their Mormon experience. I can appreciate Mormonism without accepting its truth claims.