Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

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_ludwigm
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Re: Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

Post by _ludwigm »

zeezrom wrote:
AlmaBound wrote:Chemical, electrical, mechanical engineering, that I will pay for.

Oh my God!

No!



Quote from Snow on The Two Cultures:

"A good many times I have been present at gatherings of people who, by the standards of the traditional culture, are thought highly educated and who have with considerable gusto been expressing their incredulity at the illiteracy of scientists. Once or twice I have been provoked and have asked the company how many of them could describe the Second Law of Thermodynamics. The response was cold: it was also negative. Yet I was asking something which is the scientific equivalent of: Have you read a work of Shakespeare's?"
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco
- To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei
_Hoops
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Re: Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

Post by _Hoops »

Blixa wrote:You know, I just don't know what to say.

I think I've pretty much said all I can, too.

Take a drive through Austin, Texas. The constant and one note refrain is "My property taxes should only go to my district."

I'm not saying that's a proper or improper view, I'm saying that it's not just conservatives who appeal to local control to craft the school districts they want.
_Chap
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Re: Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

Post by _Chap »

Could we perhaps consider information such as this piece of research:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/h ... ed20m.html

UW researchers analyzed records of 1,719 straight teens aged 15 to 19 taken from a 2002 federal survey on families. Sixty-seven percent of the adolescents had taken comprehensive sex-education classes; 24 percent had received abstinence-only education, which emphasizes the safest sex is no sex and which discourages premarital sex. The remaining 9 percent received no sex education.

When differences in race, age, gender and family makeup were taken into account, students who'd had comprehensive sex education were 60 percent less likely to report a pregnancy than those without any sex education and 50 percent less likely than the abstinence-only group.

Neither comprehensive nor abstinence-only education appeared to affect the odds that a teen would contract a sexually transmitted disease.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Hoops
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Re: Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

Post by _Hoops »

Or this one


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02628.html


"This new study is game-changing," said Sarah Brown, who leads the National Campaign to Prevent Teen and Unplanned Pregnancy. "For the first time, there is strong evidence that an abstinence-only intervention can help very young teens delay sex."

The study is the first to evaluate an abstinence program using a carefully designed approach comparing it with several alternative strategies and following subjects for an extended period of time, considered the kind of study that produces the highest level of scientific evidence.

"This takes away the main pillar of opposition to abstinence education," said Robert Rector, a senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation who wrote the criteria for federal funding of abstinence programs. "I've always known that abstinence programs have gotten a bad rap."

Longtime critics of the approach praised the study, saying it provides strong evidence that such programs can work and might merit taxpayer support.
_Chap
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Re: Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

Post by _Chap »

From the Washington Post article:

Several critics of an abstinence-only approach said that the curriculum tested did not represent most abstinence programs. It did not take a moralistic tone, as many abstinence programs do. Most notably, the sessions encouraged children to delay sex until they are ready, not necessarily until married; did not portray sex outside marriage as never appropriate; and did not disparage condoms.

"There is no data in this study to support the 'abstain until marriage' programs, which research proved ineffective during the Bush administration," said James Wagoner, president of Advocates for Youth.

But abstinence supporters disputed that, saying that the new program is equivalent to many other well-designed abstinence curricula that are thorough, tailor their messages to students' ages and provide detailed information.

"For our critics to use marriage as the thing that sets the program in this study apart from federally funded programs is an exaggeration and smacks of an effort to dismiss abstinence education rather than understanding what it is," said Valerie Huber of the National Abstinence Education Association.

The study released Monday involved 662 African American students from four public middle schools in a city in the Northeastern United States. It was conducted between 2001 and 2004.

Students were randomly assigned to go through one of the following: an eight-hour curriculum that encouraged them to delay having sex; an eight-hour program focused on teaching safe sex; an eight- or 12-hour program that did both; or an eight-hour program focused on teaching them other ways to be healthy, such as eating well and exercising. The abstinence-only portion involved a series of sessions in which instructors talked to students in small groups about their views about abstinence and their knowledge of HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. They also conducted role-playing exercises and brainstorming sessions designed to correct misconceptions about sex and sexually transmitted diseases, encourage abstinence and offer ways to resist pressure to have sex.

Over the next two years, about 33 percent of the students who went through the abstinence program started having sex, compared with about 52 percent who were taught only safe sex. About 42 percent of the students who went through the comprehensive program started having sex, and about 47 percent of those who learned about other ways to be healthy did.

The abstinence program had no negative effects on condom use, which has been a major criticism of the abstinence approach.

"The take-home message is that we need a variety of interventions to address an epidemic like HIV, sexually transmitted diseases and pregnancy," said Jemmott, adding that he thinks the program would be equally effective among other age and racial or ethnic groups.

"There are populations that really want an abstinence intervention. They are against telling children about condoms," he said. "This study suggests abstinence programs can be part of the mix of programs that we offer."



The problem with all these discussions is of course that the increasing polarization of US political and social discourse makes it more and more difficult to have a reasonable discussion of issues like this, which many people want to decide on ideological and religious or anti-religious grounds only.

Many parents, myself included, give their children messages with a marked abstinence content, in the sense that I have pointed out to them that early sexual activity does not seem to have good consequences, and that (leaving legal aspects aside) sex, though a good thing in itself, is certainly not to be hurried into as a result of peer pressure or a sense that one will be left behind the rest. On the other hand I do not give them any kind of 'wait till marriage' message either. Having said that, I also want them to know that the no-no above all no-nos is unprotected sex. So you could say that I am in favor of a 'reasonable abstinence + condoms too' policy in my private life.

How does one set public policy in such matters? Well, at least one can try to consider the whole range of the evidence in a non-polemical way, but always keep in mind the huge costs to the public purse in terms of welfare and young women lost to education and training as a result of high levels of inappropriately young motherhood.

Historically, the US has not done as well as one might have hoped from the world's leading economy in this field.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_Hoops
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Re: Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

Post by _Hoops »

The problem with all these discussions is of course that the increasing polarization of US political and social discourse makes it more an more difficult to have a reasonable discussion of issues like this, which many people want to decide on ideological and religious or anti-religious grounds only.


Yep. So maybe, at some point, if all the stars are aligned correctly, one could actually discuss the matter.

I doubt it though.
_Morley
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Re: Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

Post by _Morley »

Hoops wrote:
Blixa wrote:You know, I just don't know what to say.

I think I've pretty much said all I can, too.

Take a drive through Austin, Texas. The constant and one note refrain is "My property taxes should only go to my district."

I'm not saying that's a proper or improper view, I'm saying that it's not just conservatives who appeal to local control to craft the school districts they want.
My underline.

I don't think anyone is claiming that it is.

I'm for equalization of funding, too. The way we pay for it (or don't) is one of the salient problems with American education.
_Morley
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Re: Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

Post by _Morley »

AlmaBound wrote:
Morley wrote:So, to you, the goal of education should be to "compete with the world at large"?


"They don't get the same preparation for the university or the world at large." - is what you said.

I don't want to spend thousands of dollars for things I can do myself.

Chemical, electrical, mechanical engineering, that I will pay for.


Perhaps I wasn't clear, Alma. When I say "They don't get the same preparation for the university or the world at large," I'm speaking of successfully living (which I'm defining as achieving happiness and fulfillment) in the world at large. I suppose that this has components of 'competing with the world' but I hate to see it reduced to that trope. There is so goddam much that is beautiful and delicious and awe-inspiring that's waiting for us in both formal and informal education.

I apologize for going off on you last night.
_Chap
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Re: Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

Post by _Chap »

Can we get back to sex now please?
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
_krose
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Re: Is this real? Schools can drop Sex Ed

Post by _krose »

Hoops wrote:Why is it so bad to leave this decision in the hands of local school boards? Where, one would assume, it is directly accountable to its constituents?

Perhaps you misunderstand the bill they passed.

It does allow school districts to opt out of sex-ed courses altogether. But at the same time, the bill prohibits any school from discussing contraception, removing local control completely.

Oddly, this new effort follows a recent study that showed a high percentage of pregnant teen girls thought they couldn't get pregnant as a result of their actions. So it seems our brilliant legislature decided the answer to this problem of ignorance is LESS education.
"The DNA of fictional populations appears to be the most susceptible to extinction." - Simon Southerton
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