Panopticon wrote:Hoops pointed to the recent story of someone's house surviving as an example of God's Providence.
I thought I had pointed out that the prayerful family survived but the house did not. And it was in Indiana.
Panopticon wrote:Hoops pointed to the recent story of someone's house surviving as an example of God's Providence.
Panopticon wrote:The bottom line is that people ascribe "miracles" to God that are fully explainable by chance.
harmony wrote:Panopticon wrote:The bottom line is that people ascribe "miracles" to God that are fully explainable by chance.
And Mother Nature is vicious and no respector of persons. If you live in Tornado Alley or the bottom of a bowl right next to the sea or right next to a steaming mountain or on the bank of a river than is downstream from a range of mountains that tend to get lots of snow, or... well, you get the idea... chances are Mother Nature is going to visit you and it's not going to be pretty.
Don't be begging to be saved or to save your children from the consequences of your own choices. God didn't make you live there. I choose to live right next door to a nuclear power plant. When it explodes, I won't be praying for God to spare me. I'll be accepting the consequences of my decision.
(now... let the flaming begin...)
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.
B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
I am simply asking things which I have questioned and am looking to see who has good answers. Honestly I have not found any good answers yet in this thread.
When it comes to things like this, I haven't seen many good answers anywhere (This awesome thread included)
Yes it is. But according to the Bible, and to the Christian faith, God did not create it that way nor did he intend it that way.
That is my belief.
It is that way because two people, initially failed to obey one, just one really, of God's commands.
"Just one"![]()
You and I and everyone else gets to suffer enormously because of that.
As I see it, "you and I and everyone else" are sinners too. We are all broken and disobedient to the Creator. We sin, judge, condemn, question, etc, etc (This very thread seems to illustate this quite nicely, in my opinion)
To top it off he may have even known about this ahead of time. If he foreknew his plan was going to fail and not only were so many humans he would create going to suffer in this life, many would not have faith in Jesus (who was plan b apparently) and thus they would suffer in Hell forever. One wonders why he just didn't scrap the whole plan and come up with something different.
I guess you can offer advice for what God should have done, how God should have done it, or suggest why you don't agree with God. As a believer, I will not.
Yes but only because Adam and Eve screwed up. Right? Otherwise we may be in paradise now.
I would suggest that (less one named Jesus) we have all "screwed up" mightily.
Hoops wrote:Panopticon wrote:Hoops pointed to the recent story of someone's house surviving as an example of God's Providence.
I thought I had pointed out that the prayerful family survived but the house did not. And it was in Indiana.
Panopticon wrote:The details are wrong, but the point is the same.
I could run the same numbers for people who survive tornadoes on a direct hit. I'm sure there are respectable odds someone would survive, depending on the construction of the home.
So-called miracles are predictable and foreseeable given the odds.
If someone does happen to survive despite the odds, you have this problem:
harmony wrote:
And Mother Nature is vicious and no respector of persons. If you live in Tornado Alley or the bottom of a bowl right next to the sea or right next to a steaming mountain or on the bank of a river than is downstream from a range of mountains that tend to get lots of snow, or... well, you get the idea... chances are Mother Nature is going to visit you and it's not going to be pretty.
Don't be begging to be saved or to save your children from the consequences of your own choices. God didn't make you live there. I choose to live right next door to a nuclear power plant. When it explodes, I won't be praying for God to spare me. I'll be accepting the consequences of my decision.
(now... let the flaming begin...)
Jason Bourne wrote:
Ok. But doesn't it trouble you that there really are no good answers? It does me.
Very good. We are on the same page then.
Blaming the woman are you?
Sure we are all sinners and I never said we were not. And as noted maybe none of us could live perfectly in paradise so Adam and Eve's replacement may have done the same thing. But my point is, you and I were born into a fallen world through no fault of our own.
Now you, being Catholic, may believe in original sin. I don't however.
So is blind faith the only way to reconcile seemingly irreconcilable issues?
I am not telling God what to do?
as I am just wondering about the reasonableness of what Christianity believes about such things and trying to decide if such beliefs are rational as well as true.
of course.
harmony wrote:Panopticon wrote:The bottom line is that people ascribe "miracles" to God that are fully explainable by chance.
And Mother Nature is vicious and no respector of persons. If you live in Tornado Alley or the bottom of a bowl right next to the sea or right next to a steaming mountain or on the bank of a river than is downstream from a range of mountains that tend to get lots of snow, or... well, you get the idea... chances are Mother Nature is going to visit you and it's not going to be pretty.
Don't be begging to be saved or to save your children from the consequences of your own choices. God didn't make you live there. I choose to live right next door to a nuclear power plant. When it explodes, I won't be praying for God to spare me. I'll be accepting the consequences of my decision.
(now... let the flaming begin...)