James Dean and Christianity

[_sock puppet]

[Sock Puppet, would you feel something special if you had discovered a Skip James recording that was previously thought to have been destroyed? Might you feel a little "spiritual hallelujah" at the discovery? Might it be a sort of born again moment to find yourself listening to Jim Morrison after just learning how he died?

Yes, but I think that the myths spun around them, Skip James and Jim Morrison both (but mostly Morrison), are bit overblown.

In the cases of Jesus, Morrison, and Dean, it proves that if you die young, leave a good looking corpse, and leave people thinking they were cheated by death of so much more good that could have come from such a person, you will be fodder for myth makers. You'll become legendary.

[_zeezrom]

In the cases of Jesus, Morrison, and Dean, it proves that if you die young, leave a good looking corpse, and leave people thinking they were cheated by death of so much more good that could have come from such a person, you will be fodder for myth makers. You'll become legendary.

Good points, SP. I'll have to consider some things...

[_zeezrom]

I am hoping to encourage you to yourself fill in your questions with a bit more of your own thought.My only thought about the James Dean picture was he has a bit of resemblance to a new greek marble head dug up in Sicily.

I can't think much more about it today. I'm on a spiritual journey with Chopin and thread today.

[_sock puppet]

In the cases of Jesus, Morrison, and Dean, it proves that if you die young, leave a good looking corpse, and leave people thinking they were cheated by death of so much more good that could have come from such a person, you will be fodder for myth makers. You'll become legendary.

Good points, SP. I'll have to consider some things...

Consider, in the political realm, JFK and RFK too. And in the religious, JSJr. I believe this notion applies as aptly to each of them as to Jesus, Morrison, and Dean.

[_sock puppet]

As Billy Joel sang it, 'Only the good die young.'

[_huckelberry]

Zeezrom is enjoying Chopin instead of worring about death and myth. I will meander a bit in his absence.

Randall Riese, author of The Unabridged James Dean surmises:

"Within a year after his death James Dean had arisen, Christlike, to become the biggest movie star in America, perhaps the world."

Biggest star? what for a year? Now I am aware that for a group, an age some ten to fitteen years older than I James Dean meant something. After all they, in an annoying way, tried to saddle my generation with that, rebel without a cause phrase. James Dean lacks fame and myth enough for me that I accidently switch him and Steve Mcqueen in my memory. (the blob reference I made). If I review popular culture figures famous for my generation I see some obvious dead ones but ones still alive have not been eclipsed. I could not imagine in 1966 Mick Jaggars singing at the white house in 2012. Life has not hurt his myth.

I suspect that the idea of young death leading to fame and great myths is itself a myth. Consider dead artists. Most famous artists, by a large margin, have their fame fade after they die. Picassos fame zenith was during his lifetime I suspect. Van Gogh is the exception not the rule. He is famous because of what he made while he lived. It was truly exceptional. I cannot see how death contributed anything positive to his fame.

There are huge numbers of people who die young. Many of these had much good cut short. What percentage become famous myths? I think a very very small number. I suspect the myth making potential is related to the substance of what was done in the actual life.

I can see that aging can reveal a persons human limitations. An ordinariness hidden in youthful fame can emerge while aging. I find that hard not to see in Bob Dylan. Perhaps a youthful death preserves a simple image.

Zeezrom,werent you wondering what it is like to break on through to the other side?
Not all this stuff of what makes for fame and does death help fame.

Just go on down to love street ,where all the creatures meet. Fill that crystal ship, visit the whiskey bar, find mojo rising, get the roadhouse blues..... watch out for the bathtub.

[_zeezrom]

Not much Chopin. Mostly thread. I broke back into tailoring. My God how I love this.

[_sock puppet]

I could not imagine in 1966 Mick Jaggars singing at the white house in 2012. Life has not hurt his myth.

As one who has been to 33 different Rolling Stones concerts, I must respectfully disagree. Mick Jagger and the rest of the Stones truly embarrassed themselves in the 2005-07 tour, the Bigger Bang Tour, compared to shows that they were able to stage and pull off even through 2003 (the Licks Tour). In fact, it may be why the Stones are in the longest hiatus of their live performing since forming in October 1962 (they might even be de facto retired).

But for a better rock music example, take the Beatles. Until December 8, 1980, Paul McCartney was clearly the most successful, biggest name ex-Beatle through the 1970s. Wings over the World was the biggest rock tour draw in 1975-76. The height of McCartney's Wings' success can be read here.

Since Mark David Chapman fired those shots outside The Dakota building in Manhattan on December 8, 1980, John Lennon has been mythologized beyond anything McCartney had achieved to that point or in the 30 years since.

[_huckelberry]

Sock Puppet. looking back before 1980 I think there is good reason to think Lennon always had the myth. It is probably unfair. There is some reason though thinkLennon had more ego while McCartney had more music.

I will just swallow the jealosy twinge about all those stones concerts, concede you have much better information on the maintance of Stones performing abilities. Still I do not think their myth has died. I remember that their myth from 1965 or so on included thinking their performances uncertain due to intoxication. That is just a matter of what people said. I never saw them in person then or since.

I was not proposing death has no use for myth growth. I noted that it puts an end to some of the humanizing and revealing of limitations that age can bring. That might even been seen as a consideration in the growth of the Jesus myth. (I can understand it as a myth at the same time as actually believing the story.)

At the same time I might think again of the consideration that a myth would start with what a person actually did even if the picture of what was done grew over time afterwards.

[_sock puppet]

Sock Puppet. looking back before 1980 I think there is good reason to think Lennon always had the myth. It is probably unfair. There is some reason though thinkLennon had more ego while McCartney had more music.

I will just swallow the jealosy twinge about all those stones concerts, concede you have much better information on the maintance of Stones performing abilities. Still I do not think their myth has died. I remember that their myth from 1965 or so on included thinking their performances uncertain due to intoxication. That is just a matter of what people said. I never saw them in person then or since.

I was not proposing death has no use for myth growth. I noted that it puts an end to some of the humanizing and revealing of limitations that age can bring. That might even been seen as a consideration in the growth of the Jesus myth. (I can understand it as a myth at the same time as actually believing the story.)

At the same time I might think again of the consideration that a myth would start with what a person actually did even if the picture of what was done grew over time afterwards.

Hey, huckelberry, I can tell you, of those 33 shows, there were about 5 as to which I envy you and everyone else who was not at them.

When someone was enigmatic, withdrawn, and oblique, the myth makers use that as a canvas to draw what might have been. The myth spinning about Lennon was already beginning because unlike McCartney, Lennon was withdrawing from the public view, almost from the time of the Beatles' split. Not much was known of James Dean's life, and he did not seem to be an easy personality to figure out. Was he really cool, or just a troubled young man? Levi Strauss banked on 'cool' and used that picture of him in blue jeans as an ad.

Jesus? what about those years we don't know anything about him. Strange child. Threw those money changers out of the temple, sought out the Baptist and was baptized, 'and like that, poof,' in Keyser Söze turn, he was gone, and did not return until he was age 30. Upon his re-appearance, he is noted as having said relatively few things, but they seemed different, profound before he was crucified. They had a peaceful, calming, generous effect. And on that relatively blank canvass, the four gospels were based and Paul expanded greatly a theology spun around that enigmatic personality.