Gender an eternal/spiritual 'assignment'

[_Nightlion]

Mary did not contribute to the DNA that made for Jesus Christ. He was a clone of the Father placed into the virgin womb of a chosen vessel who was the fairest of all.

That is not scriptural. Not to mention that it's balderdash.

Not to shy away from the impossible like trying to convince someone who does not believe in scripture what that scripture actually teaches, let me reason a little with you please. Why do you suppose that just as Eve has her conceptions multiplied Christ was mentioned in regards to her seed as bruising the serpents head as the serpent has power to bruise his heel?

Remember that Christ is to have preeminence in all things and is always considered the first born. So it reasons that the first conception made possible from Eve having her conceptions multiplied or replenished was taken for the clone of Christ. Without this connection I would only have the reality of Jesus being int he express image of the Father as a witness to the fact that Christ was a clone. Since I have two words in scripture that verify my interpretation I am justified by the scriptures to declare it. As per Joseph Smith saying: If there is one word of holy writ it is enough to establish doctrine.( almost verbatim.)

Since you mythicize Enoch I suppose the most I can hope for is a kind shrug on this.

Not England again! Good grief. Surely you aren't saying Mary, the freakin' mother of God in the flesh, is neither noble nor great?

The arrogance of man is astounding... but not surprising.

Not in the context of noble and great that God spoke to in the beginning, no. I certainly hold her as both noble and great in my own estimation.

[_sock puppet]

snip

[_harmony]

Without this connection I would only have the reality of Jesus being int he express image of the Father as a witness to the fact that Christ was a clone.

Then so are we all. I refer you to Genesis 1:27, of course.

[_zeezrom]

Hello,

Mary was transfigured to walk among the immortals prior to the birth of Jesus. The Divinity of Jesus came from her.

[_MCB]

Mary was transfigured to walk among the immortals prior to the birth of Jesus. The Divinity of Jesus came from her.

Zeez, you are SO Greek!!

[_lulu]

If Jesus was all God and no Mary, how then was he mortal like us?

[_Nightlion]

If Jesus was all God and no Mary, how then was he mortal like us?

What makes you think he was the least bit one of us? If you were from everlasting to everlasting, having neither father nor mother nor beginning of days nor end of years and could do whatsoever you want, do you suppose that maybe sending yourself to be born and nurtured and cooed by a beautiful mommy and live a few years as a kid might be just the ticket to help you assuage all that anger that comes off from being denied your glory and even reviled by the ungrateful snipes who inhabit worlds without number that you create for your own names glory? God has a way and means to forget all for a season. How cool would that be? He has to learn and accomplish being God again. Why be bored with the same ol same ol forever and ever? Take a break. Lay down you life so you can take it again. Nothing mortal about it.

Wouldn't you love to read his real story and know how young he was when he knew that he could do whatsoever he wanted? And if so think that he live in this crap heap without making a single mistake with all that potential! Were his first eight years innocent? Did that cover any rashness and immaturity with all that was possible for him to do? WOW!

I know some apocryphal writings have him making birds out of clay as a child. But the real story has to ace that by thousands. And then he gets bummed out and becomes a man of sorrows acquainted with grief. Hmm, a stranger in a strange land.

[_Tarski]

Huh? Can someone explain what is germane here?

There are perhaps three inseparable aspects to gender. The biological, the psychological and the sociological. There are no sharp divisions between these aspects.
There is not the slightest evidence for magical or supernatural origins of gender. The notion is unmotivated.
To talk of spiritual aspects of gender can only be a poetic way of getting at what is ultimately a natural matter in the way mentioned above.

Lulu has drawn our attention to the biological aspects so that we can see how subtle and complex are the issues and at the same time how precise we can be when dicussing them.
Trying to correlate the conceptual categories of religious fantasies about gender with the biological realities and possibilties leads to all sorts of absurdities. The lesson should be that we should drop the religious nonsense. It just doesn't fit.

Any more questions?

[_lulu]

What makes you think he was the least bit one of us?

Oh, I don't know, about 1,500 years of Christian teaching that Jesus was, and had to be, both fully human and fully God? cf Council of Chalcedon and Docetism.

But for full disclosure, I'm among those who think that whether or not there was a historical Jesus is an open question and most likely always will be. Needless to say that if there was a historical Jesus he was 100% human and that there is not, never has been nor ever will be anyone walking around who is any % God. So I'll stay out of this type of Christological controversy.

[_Nightlion]

Huh? Can someone explain what is germane here?

There are perhaps three inseparable aspects to gender. The biological, the psychological and the sociological. There are no sharp divisions between these aspects.
There is not the slightest evidence for magical or supernatural origins of gender. The notion is unmotivated.
To talk of spiritual aspects of gender can only be a poetic way of getting at what is ultimately a natural matter in the way mentioned above.

Lulu has drawn our attention to the biological aspects so that we can see how subtle and complex are the issues and at the same time how precise we can be when dicussing them.
Trying to correlate the conceptual categories of religious fantasies about gender with the biological realities and possibilties leads to all sorts of absurdities. The lesson should be that we should drop the religious nonsense. It just doesn't fit.

Any more questions?

Thanks. How can science guys take themselves seriously as having known or solved anything leaving out more than half of the equation, calling it unmotivated, which means irrelevant I have to suppose. Geniuses everyone. And then they stand at the head of every class like knowledge Nazis insisting their sterilization of facts be counted for a mastery. How immature.