Jaybear Looking for Odd, Strained Argument to Bash Church

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_Droopy
_Emeritus
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Re: Jaybear Looking for Odd, Strained Argument to Bash Churc

Post by _Droopy »

EAllusion wrote:"Only in Provo" is clearly a reference to the idea that only in Provo is being outed as a closeted homosexual feeling forced to lead a double-life so horrifying that it allows people to extort them with the threat of it.


In most places, too, mental masturbation of this kind, and at this level of intensity, would be understood to be both a sign of intellectual desperation and neurotic externalization and rationalization of internal emotional turmoil, in this case aimed at the Church.

By contrast in more tolerant areas gays are more likely to feel free to just be gay, so there isn't the leverage for extortion. Jaybear is wrong on this point - Ted Haggards are all over the place, right Droopy? - but it's not hard to understand what's being said.


No, its very hard to understand what is being said, unless you are a virulent anti-Mormon bigot or a sanctimonious, crusading leftist driven to such lengths by the fever of his own smug sense of moral self regard.

A closeted homosexual man could be extorted anywhere under exactly the same circumstances, and you and Jaybear know that perfectly well.

Just another manufactured excuse for a manufactured argument for a manufactured thread for a manufactured calumny by unknown, manufactured Internet cowards against a Church and people the offend their well honed politically correct mental masturbatory fantasies that they are "tolerant" and "enlightened."

The vast majority of secular humanist liberals are neither tolerant of any dissent from their pious PC platitudes, nor enlightened beyond their own self imposed - and highly truncated and surgically selective - self indoctrination.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_lulu
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Re: Jaybear Looking for Odd, Strained Argument to Bash Churc

Post by _lulu »

Droopy wrote:
What is something that could be said about the victim that would make him look worse at BYU, Provo, UT than:
1. Having sex with his own wife or
2. Or having sex with any woman not his wife?
Time is running out Droopy, I need an answer, your family, church and the whole country are waiting.

Answer the question clearly, and consisely (adduce an actual claim or argument), or slink away wrapped in the holy folds of your own (self assumed) intellectual pomposity and call it a day.
Head games bore me.


Oh, I'm sorry, the game is already over, the taping has ended, the live audience has gone home along with the producers, directors, camera operators and engineers.

What's that? Someone banging on the stage door?
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Droopy
_Emeritus
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Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Jaybear Looking for Odd, Strained Argument to Bash Churc

Post by _Droopy »

I'm sorry, time has run out Droopy (mom says I have to get ready for bed now).


Too bad Buffalo doesn't do what his mommy says more often. Teenagers shouldn't be up too late on a school night.

The correct answer to: in Provo UT what looks worse than sex with your wife or sex with any woman not your wife . . .

Gay male sex, the correct answer is gay male sex, Droopy.


I'm reticent about having, or attempting to have, discussion with either of two animals:

1. Lemmings

2. Pit vipers, even baby pit vipers.

When you get out of rehab, perhaps we could revisit a discussion sometime in the future.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_lulu
_Emeritus
Posts: 2310
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:08 am

Re: Jaybear Looking for Odd, Strained Argument to Bash Churc

Post by _lulu »

Droopy wrote:
What is something that could be said about the victim that would make him look worse at BYU, Provo, UT than:

1. Having sex with his own wife or
2. Or having sex with any woman not his wife?

Time is running out Droopy, I need an answer, your family, church and the whole country are waiting.


Answer the question clearly, and consisely (adduce an actual claim or argument), or slink away wrapped in the holy folds of your own (self assumed) intellectual pomposity and call it a day.

Head games bore me.



You've returned to where you were bored?

How curious.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Jaybear Looking for Odd, Strained Argument to Bash Churc

Post by _Droopy »

You're mixed up about the elements of extortion.


No, you're just a rather textbook example of the kind of secularist intellectual perp produced in America's law schools and common on both the Left and within secular idolatarian libertariansim, desperately seeking a point for your manufactured argument. The crime is extortion. Homosexuality is not a crime any more in Utah than anywhere else. His homosexuality is peripheral to the crime itself. The motive is irrelevant to the actual commission of the crime. If it was a male extorting sex from a male, or vice versa, the crime of extortion would still be the issue, not the motive or specific intention of the extortion.

If I extort money from you with photos of you with your 18 year old secretary, the point isn't adultery, but extortion. If I extort money from you with records from your hard disk loaded with porn, the issue of porn is peripheral. The fact that I extorted you is what will send me to jail, not the means or hook I used to inflict the extortion.

Hit the lever on the slot machine in your rubber cement mind again, and watch out for those lemons...

The issue is not the alleged perpetrator's sexual orientation, but the victim's. It is establishing that the victim had information that he did not want to be disclosed that is required to prove extortion. In this case, that information was the victim's homosexuality.


Therefore, the issue is extortion, which is a crime, and for which, if found guilty, the perpetrator will be punished. Homosexuality is of no consequence beyond the fact that it was used to extract what the perpetrator wanted, and the fact that the victim wanted to keep it a secret and out of the public sphere.

"Closeted" homosexuals are found everywhere, and always will be, so long as a majority within society retain any substantive sense of moral centeredness, moral sanity, and civilizational self respect.

Anti-Mormon issues are not hard to find, what with the Church's own statements and actions, its colossal hubris, and the things that its ostensibly faithful members post on the internet.


In your opinion, which has little going for it save that it is your opinion and you believe it to be definitive.

Sorry, but there are principled alternative philosophies out and about.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_RayAgostini

Re: Jaybear Looking for Odd, Strained Argument to Bash Churc

Post by _RayAgostini »

Tarski wrote:Which do you think has brought me more happiness without excessive associated pain; Wives? children? Faith? Or....mathematics?
What has remained constant in meaning and truth? What has given me a glimpse of the eternal and a taste of the profound?
Can you guess?


I remember reading that, when a young man, Bertrand Russell once thought of suicide because he thought life was meaningless. Then, he said, "but I wanted to know more about mathematics" (paraphrasing). If that saved him, good and well. Ditto for you.

What I had in mind was 1st Corinthians 13.

I'll rearrange it to suit you (not that I think it will have much meaning to you):

2 And though I have the gift of mathematics and science, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge...and have not charity, I am nothing.
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