MsJack wrote: Hippolytus' commentary is only preserved in a Georgian translation and some fragments from other languages plus citations in the ECFs. If the Georgian translation authentically preserves this section of the text, then this comes from the early 3rd century.
Nightlion wrote: Angel sent is not apostolic. Nice try. Beautiful sentiment, artsy and poetic. If fully apostolic where then was their valiance evermore? ..............probably got married and had babies. Not that having babies fails of great valiance, heaven forbid.
.... the women, those who were made apostles to the apostles, having been sent by Christ ...
OK?
Right both the angel and Christ told them to go and tell the brethren. I spoke too soon on that. Sent is a given but not an apostolic revelation by the power of the Holy Ghost that makes for a real apostle. Sent must precede the revelation as a calling would. And that revelation is not only the seeing Jesus risen from the dead, as many did, but lacked the official apostolic witness by the power of the Holy Ghost. it is not just a revelation but the bestowal of the power of apostleship an event that places the actual burden of apostleship upon you and gives efficacy and judgment to your witness.
Nightlion wrote: Right both the angel and Christ told them to go and tell the brethren. I spoke too soon on that.
<SNIP ad hoc attempt to burble some kind of reason for being right after all about a pesky woman not being an apostle>
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
When Women Were Priests: Women's Leadership in the Early Church & the Scandal of their Subordination in the Rise of Christianity_ by Karen Jo Torjesen
Torjesen suggests that the very early Christians avoided the term heiros in favour of diakonos (minister), Apostolos (missionary), Presbyteros (Elder/Priest), Episcopos (overseer), Diakonos (deacon) and that women held ALL of these positions, including Mary as Apostle to the Apostles (or missionary to the missionaries). She after all maintained her devotion and trust when all the men had lost theirs and dispersed at the time of Jesus' crucifixion.
Interestingly Torjesen also looks at the evidence from archaeology, mosaic, inscription, sculpture, and painting in the early church and can find a Bishop Theodora amongst others.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
The Mighty Builder wrote:Yep. She has more qualifications than any historical Biblical individual to Testify of Real Christian Jesus.
If the evidence from the Talpiot Tomb is correct then it also appears that Mary was married to Jesus and had at least one child who is/was buried in the same tomb with them.
"It's a little like the Confederate Constitution guaranteeing the freedom to own slaves. Irony doesn't exist for bigots or fanatics." Maksutov
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
Yahoo Bot wrote:False assumption, that an apostle must be an eyewitness of Jesus Christ.
A false assumption kept alive and well by the Mormon Church.
Yahoo Bot wrote: Nope. You didn't read my post. Only Protestants believe that. The rest of the Christian world does not.
Acts 1:
15 In those days Peter stood up among the believers (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16 and said, “Brothers and sisters,[d] the Scripture had to be fulfilled in which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus. 17 He was one of our number and shared in our ministry.”
18 (With the payment he received for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. 19 Everyone in Jerusalem heard about this, so they called that field in their language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.)
20 “For,” said Peter, “it is written in the Book of Psalms:
“‘May his place be deserted; let there be no one to dwell in it,’[e]
and,
“‘May another take his place of leadership.’[f]
21 Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus was living among us, 22 beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.”
So Peter would have been happy to choose an apostle who had NOT been a witness of the resurrection? Maybe the text was not correctly translated?
Nope:
22αρξαμενος απο του βαπτισματος ιωαννου εως της ημερας ης ανελημφθη αφ ημων μαρτυρα της αναστασεως αυτου συν ημιν γενεσθαι ενα τουτων
Zadok: I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis. Maksutov: That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.