Mormonism 101 Has Always Been At War With Eastasia

[_Tobin]

1) President Kimball was mistaken in his speculation.2) President Snow was mistaken in his speculation.

You are anti-mormon. Prophets do not lead the church astray, they don't mistake. They can not.

Phooey, last I checked, these guys were mortal men and not God. They are perfectly capable of being wrong.

So where does Kimball, Snow, and others go wrong?

Nowhere, You anti-mormon liar.

Again, they are mortal fallible men.

They make the mistake of stating that ...

They don't make any mistake. Prophets of the only true church are not that type of fallible men.

That's not true. They are not God.

... we aren't literally the spirit children of God ...

You will be literally excommunicated. I am not Your enemy. This is a warning only.

I very much doubt it, but even if I am - so what? If I seek the truth as best as God gives me the light to see it, I have no regrets. It is God that saves, not men or churches.

[_RayAgostini]

I will leave it to readers to decide whether the LDS Church is honest or whether it is lying about itself and its teachings. We'll begin with this example:

I don't know who runs "LDS Newsroom", though I do think they put out many interesting things. One of my favourites is The Mormon Ethic of Civility.

However, I can't find anywhere on their website where it says something like: "Signed and approved by the First Presidency".

Even past First Presidency statements, such as the 1949 statement on Blacks, seems to be now null and void, and written with "a limited understanding" (corrected, incidentally, by a better understanding of what the Book of Mormon always taught).

But this is what I've always observed about you, Darth. You're a real disciple and fan of using quotations by Mormon leaders, and pitting them against one another, and "bingo!" - we should all abandon Mormonism because Darth J has shown us, unequivocally, that they are all "liars and dishonest".

I'd like to refer you to an old essay, relevant to you, I think, written by a then "anonymous Mormon historian", also known as "Dr. Clandestine", who happened to be none other than D. Michael Quinn.

JERALD AND SANDRA TANNER'S DISTORTED VIEW OF Mormonism: A RESPONSE TO MORMONISM--SHADOW OR REALITY?.

You, my friend, fall into the Tanners "distorted view of Mormonism", and the more you post here, the more you evidence that. And that's why, from day one, I haven't had a lot of respect for you, or your distorted and biased views.

[_Chap]

You're a real disciple and fan of using quotations by Mormon leaders

That is a very wicked thing to do, certainly.

[_Kishkumen]

I don't particularly care to have my own planet, but I am absolutely blown away by how easily teachings of the LDS Church I knew have been tossed aside with the eager complicity of people like Tobin. It represents one of the many ways in which Mormonism is accommodating itself to mainstream Christianity and thereby making itself utterly irrelevant. Why put one's self out for what one can essentially get from the Protestant minister down the street for less trouble?

[_RayAgostini]

That is a very wicked thing to do, certainly.

It can be when people take Alvin Dyer's speech on Blacks, for instance, as "doctrine". Yep, I'd have no hesitation in classing it as "wicked", in that instance, and others.

[_ludwigm]

... we aren't literally the spirit children of God ...

You will be literally excommunicated. I am not Your enemy. This is a warning only.

I very much doubt it, but even if I am - so what? If I seek the truth as best as God gives me the light to see it, I have no regrets. It is God that saves, not men or churches.

...so what...

so what ???

You have excommunicated Yourself. Then I don't fall into conversation with You.

Do not spread disease germs! (see "The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than The Intellect", by Mc Conkie)

[_Nightlion]

I don't particularly care to have my own planet, but I am absolutely blown away by how easily teachings of the LDS Church I knew have been tossed aside with the eager complicity of people like Tobin. It represents one of the many ways in which Mormonism is accommodating itself to mainstream Christianity and thereby making itself utterly irrelevant. Why put one's self out for what one can essentially get from the Protestant minister down the street for less trouble?

It takes two witnesses to establish a charge. I am one and the Apocalrock is the second to demonstrate the fall and sin of the LDS Church against the gospel. It is now in the dust and officially on equal footing with the Great and Abominable Church of the Devil. It is done the day of the Gentile is over. It is fully unplugged. No virtue kaput!

Cool that the Lord took such pains in a generation with no faith to make for his own witness by foreknown proximity and destination of a people who were responsible to save the world and failed. As well prophesied it will be the lost sheep of the House of Israel that gather out from all nations and whithersoever the Lord has driven them who redeem Zion and build up her waste places. It is done.

You are seeing the moldering of just another daughter of the Great Whore in the dust of history.

[_Tobin]

Do not spread disease germs! (see "The Mantle Is Far, Far Greater Than The Intellect", by Mc Conkie)

Actually, that was by Boyd K. Packer.

[_RayAgostini]

I don't particularly care to have my own planet, but I am absolutely blown away by how easily teachings of the LDS Church I knew have been tossed aside with the eager complicity of people like Tobin. It represents one of the many ways in which Mormonism is accommodating itself to mainstream Christianity and thereby making itself utterly irrelevant. Why put one's self out for what one can essentially get from the Protestant minister down the street for less trouble?

The hoards are begging Mormons to change their policies on homosexuals, and to "get real" and "become relevant". So which is it, Kish? Is "accommodation" a good, or a bad thing? You want them to "accommodate" homosexuals, because that's a "good thing", but if they "accommodate" in any other areas, that makes them "irrelevant"?

You need to be consistent, too, and if you feel LDS should not "accommodate", then don't cry foul when they declare homosexuality "an abomination". Seems you want them to be "progressive" in some areas, which suits you, but not in others, which don't suit you?

[_beastie]

We are witnessing another evolutionary phase of the LDS church, due not to "revelation", but the pressure of the host culture.

It happened with polygamy. Polygamy was the "gem" in the crown of the restoration. Members at that time could not conceive that the church would abandon such a core and sacred way of life. But it did. Why? Because Utah wanted statehood.

It happened with the priesthood ban. Many members were shocked, having been taught that the ban would only be lifted after every other non-banned worthy male had the priesthood, throughout the history of our world. But instead, it happened in 1978. Why? Because society was condemning Mormonism and threatening BYU's sports.

It is happening now with the slow abandonment of the basic teaching that worthy human beings will be exalted to godhood one day, and be gods over their own worlds. Why? Because LDS leaders want the political and social power and influence that may come with having their own in powerful political positions, like the US president.

I have often felt that, with access to information about church history increasing via the internet, that the church is at a crossroads. It could react two ways to this inspection and attention. It could retrench and become even more conservative, more wedded to its past in a defensive maneuver. Or it could make its teachings more palatable to the mainstream in an attempt to be accepted.

It's clear the church has chosen the latter route.

I predict that, while it may seem a good move at the moment, the mainstreaming of the LDS church will eventually result in a drop in membership as the LDS church looks more and more like any other protestant faith. Kind of like what happened to the RLDS.