Neighborhood watch killer was not racist

[_maklelan]

I think this man's actions were very clearly motivated by race (as well as just general anger and power issues), but having listened to the audio, he very clearly said "f***ing punks."

[_bcspace]

So he's bigoted against punks?

[_Hoops]

Everyone is assuming facts not in evidence. Zimmerman may, indeed, have said this word, but no one has evidence for it yet. All you have is commentary on the 911 tape. Even Mother Jones has on its script of the 911 call where this word was supposed to have been "unintelligible." In fact, I would say that the evidence leans against him saying this word because the word has a bit of a time stamp on it so I would doubt that Zimmerman would even be aware of such a word.

Now, let's turn it around. Let's say one of the OWS protestors said something like ... "Kill all the rich people," or the president sat in a pew in front of where a racist preached. All the tidy, condescending, arrogant, liberals on this board would....

Oh, wait. Never mind.

[_Hoops]

He's the full transcript on MJ's website, should anyone like to read.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... erman.html

[_Hoops]

So he's bigoted against punks?

Of course, neither do you know that he said "punk."

[_DarkHelmet]

So he's bigoted against punks?

Of course, neither do you know that he said "punk."

We shouldn't get caught up on the word. It sounded like Coons to me, but it was muffled so there is no way to know. What concerns me is he followed a teenage kid because he didn't like the way he looked. He shot the kid dead for no apparent reason and the cops let him walk because he claimed self-defense. As a parent of a teenage kid who sometimes wears a hoodie, has earrings, and sometimes acts like a punk, this case makes me sick to my stomach.

[_Hoops]

We shouldn't get caught up on the word.

Then why did you make the "apparent" accusation? You chose a particularly powerful word that may or may not have been used.

It sounded like Coons to me,

Ok. Others can't be so definitive. He may have said the word and that's an element that is, rightly, important. Still, lots of words sound like other words that have no meaningful relationship.

but it was muffled so there is no way to know.

Not at this point. So why did you bring it up? Simple fairness would warrant that we wait and see before convicting this guy on the particular charge.

What concerns me is he followed a teenage kid because he didn't like the way he looked.

Me to. And that deserves some thoughtful, comprehensive investigation. It does NOT deserve reflexively accusing this guy of racism because it serves some agenda.

He shot the kid dead for no apparent reason

It would seem so. It is disconcerting for sure. But you will agree that there may be more to the story?

and the cops let him walk because he claimed self-defense.

Well, that decision is up to someone else, isn't it?

As a parent of a teenage kid who sometimes wears a hoodie, has earrings, and sometimes acts like a punk, this case makes me sick to my stomach.

What teenage boy doesn't?

[_DarkHelmet]

We shouldn't get caught up on the word.

Then why did you make the "apparent" accusation? You chose a particularly powerful word that may or may not have been used.

It sounded like Coons to me,

Ok. Others can't be so definitive. He may have said the word and that's an element that is, rightly, important. Still, lots of words sound like other words that have no meaningful relationship.

but it was muffled so there is no way to know.

Not at this point. So why did you bring it up? Simple fairness would warrant that we wait and see before convicting this guy on the particular charge.

What concerns me is he followed a teenage kid because he didn't like the way he looked.

Me to. And that deserves some thoughtful, comprehensive investigation. It does NOT deserve reflexively accusing this guy of racism because it serves some agenda.

I used the "coon" part of the story to illustrate the idiocy of claiming something isn't racist because you can say you were talking about lineage, not race. This guy is probably a racist, but I don't really care about that. That's not important. I'm actually accusing him of being a murderer.

He shot the kid dead for no apparent reason

It would seem so. It is disconcerting for sure. But you will agree that there may be more to the story?

I'm not sure what else there could be. A ton of evidence is already available. Do you think maybe the kid had a weapon, even though none was found? Based on what we know, I don't know of any new evidence (other than a mysteriously appearing weapon) that can justify shooting this kid.

and the cops let him walk because he claimed self-defense.

Well, that decision is up to someone else, isn't it?

And since the police chief is stepping down, it appears the decision was wrong.

As a parent of a teenage kid who sometimes wears a hoodie, has earrings, and sometimes acts like a punk, this case makes me sick to my stomach.

What teenage boy doesn't?

Agreed.

[_Hoops]

I used the "coon" part of the story to illustrate the idiocy of claiming something isn't racist because you can say you were talking about lineage, not race.

If you say so.

This guy is probably a racist,

Why? How could you possibly make this determination?

but I don't really care about that.

You cared enough to make the accusation.

I'm actually accusing him of being a murderer.

Okay.

I'm not sure what else there could be.

That's right. You have no idea. So why position yourself as if you do?

A ton of evidence is already available.

Certainly enough for you to make your accusations. I guess that's enough for your agenda.

Do you think maybe the kid had a weapon, even though none was found?

It would appear not.

Based on what we know, I don't know of any new evidence (other than a mysteriously appearing weapon) that can justify shooting this kid.

So now if a weapon is found, we know where you stand on that. Glad you're keeping an open mind.

And since the police chief is stepping down, it appears the decision was wrong.

Which wasn't your point. Your point was that the police department declined to press charges. Doesn't the AG make that determination? Shoot, we can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a lawyer, surely one of these guys can weigh in here.

[_DarkHelmet]

I used the "coon" part of the story to illustrate the idiocy of claiming something isn't racist because you can say you were talking about lineage, not race.

If you say so.

This is what I said in the OP. you can scroll to the top if you don't believe me.

The neighborhood watch guy who killed Trayvon Martin was not motivated by race. He used the word "coon", but he was most likely referring to Trayvon Martin's lineage not his race, so it's OK.

Either it's a tongue in cheek shot at the race/lineage defense used by apologists for the priesthood ban, or I'm being serious and I don't believe Zimmerman is a racist. You can pick one, I don't care. But where do you see me accusing him of being a racist. At the time I wrote the OP, it was being reported that he said "coon." I did not listen to the recording, I was just going off the news stories and using apologist style spin to "defend" Zimmerman.

This guy is probably a racist,

Why? How could you possibly make this determination?

It is my opinion that he is based on his actions. Maybe he's not, I think he probably is. Is that OK with you?

but I don't really care about that.

You cared enough to make the accusation.

I accused him of using the word coon based on the new stories. I was simply using those stories to do a parody of LDS apologists.

I'm actually accusing him of being a murderer.

Okay.

I'm not sure what else there could be.

That's right. You have no idea. So why position yourself as if you do?

A ton of evidence is already available.

Certainly enough for you to make your accusations. I guess that's enough for your agenda.

What agenda do you think I have? A teenage kid was stalked and murdered by a thug and it bothers me.

Do you think maybe the kid had a weapon, even though none was found?

It would appear not.

Based on what we know, I don't know of any new evidence (other than a mysteriously appearing weapon) that can justify shooting this kid.

So now if a weapon is found, we know where you stand on that. Glad you're keeping an open mind.

If it turns out Zimmerman's life was threatened i will adjust my opinion.

And since the police chief is stepping down, it appears the decision was wrong.

Which wasn't your point. Your point was that the police department declined to press charges. Doesn't the AG make that determination? Shoot, we can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a lawyer, surely one of these guys can weigh in here.

If you or me stalked a kid and gunned him down, do you think the cops would just send us home? It makes no sense. He's standing over a dead body with a gun and the cops take his word that it was self defense and send him home. Is it really that easy to kill someone?