davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

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_Nightlion
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Re: davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

Post by _Nightlion »

gdemetz wrote:You claim that is the case, then post a quote from Brigham Young to support that.


For once I whole-heartily agree with what DarthJ just said. He does not need to find a Brigham Young quote because LDS standard works declare the same thing. It is very obvious once you read them with a correct chronology. I never got to that point in my second session of expounding the end from the beginning. Nobody seemed interested enough for me to drag out all the dead cats from the bag of foolish adolescent Mormon unthunk through teachings like so many courts jesters juggling notions every which way that they might appear to slightly understand what Joseph Smith may have said....perhaps.

The scripture must establish doctrine and Brigham must bow to it. If they teach about it then that is it. We never needed Brigham Young to enlighten us about exaltation and the how that rolls. It is plain as day when you take the Holy Ghost as your guide and read by that power of understanding. To wit:

God made man in his own image and likeness. This was both God the Father and Jesus making man thus. Read it Elder Rigdon! Okay, so both the man and the woman were made together at the same moment........now.....when exactly were these two ever married or given in marriage on to another?.......hmm???? never! But they were commanded to multiply and replenish so um, they musta been already married........RIGHT? Of course. Then when the Lord made them in his likeness and in his image it MUST have been their resurrection unto exaltation that was happening there. Because they were already married. That means that they were beings from whatever world they lived upon when they were married and where they proved faithful and gained their exaltation.........NEXT.......These two obey the command to multiply and finish all the hosts thereof. See it in Genesis chapter two
and see that you mark it Elder Rigdon!

Now take a break and breathe easy a second or two while your mind expands and your heart opens wide as eternity.......wait for it......now. All things were created in heaven before they were naturally upon the earth. All men. By whom in this specific instance? By Adam and Eve......whom......(are you ready?) our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ commanded to multiply and replenish. This is the correct chronology of all creation scripture.

THEN

After fathering all the spirits that were prepared to go down to earth ADAM was formed out of the dust of the earth and into that clay the Lord breathed his (Adam'
s) spirit that he became a living soul.......Adam was a resurrected and glorified being so how could the Lord put that being by the word of his power (breathed) command that he take a tabernacle of clay. IT IS VERY LITERAL that is the mystery solved. A glorified and resurrected man can hie to Kolob at will. How do you propose God keeps such a being tethered to the Garden of Eden to fulfill God's purposes in being there if he can jump off and hie where ever he might yearn to go?

Two things. He must take away Adam's memory so that he does not remember what he could do and anything about any other possibility. And second he must hamper him and tie him to this planet. How? By taking the coarse elements (clay) and mixing them with the exalted and glorified body of the resurrected unto exaltation that Adam was. I do not suspect that this process was in the least pleasant as God needed to put Adam to sleep while the operation was conducted.

Still, for Eve's benefit elements already assimilated by Adam were then taken from his side to tether Eve here and have the same retarding effect. Just not so rough on Eve and that was very polite and gentlemanly of Adam and God to do so. I know that is says God put Adams spirit into the dust but we are spirit from age to age as Joseph Smith taught. So in resurrection we are spirit beings. As God is a spirit.

I have added nothing to scripture in expounding it thusly. I have only opened up your eyes that you might begin to see clearly. Now what was the true situation in the Garden of Eden. Eve needed her power of conception multiplied and replenished in her. Why? Because she had exhausted them in the previous world having finished all the hosts (conceptions) possible. that is the way it is with women. They only have so many conceptions possible and then they are done. Men can continue to produce sperm but the woman has a closed and finite set of conceptions and that's it.

Makes great sense then that Eve was more motivated to partake of the fruit of the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. It was her instinct to do so. Please take pains to note that Adam and Eve were never commanded to have children in the Garden of Eden.........wait for it........wait for it.......there!

Now you are enlightened. How long shall it remain in you? Who can tell?

And here is some more:
After they left the Garden the gospel of Jesus Christ was administered to Adam according to the Book of Moses. Therefore, exalted beings are made subject to the Very Eternal Father after they fall into the earth that they helped to make and where they have physical children to begin the world where all their spirit children will come to get physical bodies. This is why Adam rules over this world subject to Christ who is Very God.

Christ was born of a virgin. Not by Adam. That is stupid. Adam died and could only have been resurrected again and therefore could have only had spirit body seed in him that could not conceive a physical child anyways. Christ was cloned of the Father and placed in the virgin womb of Mary by the power of the Holy Ghost. This is why Christ could rightly say that when you had seen him you had seen the Father.

The seed for that clone was the first ovulation of Eve after her seed was multiplied unto her. for what does the scripture say about the seed of the woman...Eve? That he shall crush (or bruise) the serpents head. That is Christ.
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_Darth J
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Re: davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

Post by _Darth J »

gdemetz wrote:You claim that is the case, then post a quote from Brigham Young to support that.


Millenial Star at BYU Digital Collections: http://contentdm.lib.BYU.edu/cdm4/docum ... 468&REC=16

The Millenial Star, 11/26/1853

Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in heaven. now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation.

Brigham Young was explicit that Elohim is our Grandfather, while Michael/Adam is our Heavenly Father.

The Millenial Star, 12/10/1853

As the great Eloheim is supreme and Almighty over all his children and kingdoms, so is Adam as great a ruler, or God, in his sphere, over his children, and the kingdom which they possess. The earth and all things upon it were created for Adam, and it was given to him of his father to have dominion over it. In that dominion he will be sustained throughout all eternity.


Journal of Discourses 9:149

The Father frequently came to visit his son Adam, and talked and walked with him; and the children of Adam were more or less acquainted with their Grandfather, and their children were more or less acquainted with their Great-Grandfather; and the things that pertain to God and to heaven were as familiar among mankind, in the first ages of their existence on the earth, as these mountains are to our mountain boys, as our gardens are to our wives and children, or as the road to the Western Ocean is to the experienced traveller.

Brigham Young never conflated Elohim with Michael. The quote you posted in the Celestial Forum thread, with your fanciful, revisionist commentary, says that Michael---not Elohim---is our Heavenly Father. There is no Adam, Sr./Adam, Jr. expressed, and there is none implied.

The Millenial Star, 11/26/1853

When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken. He is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom we have to do.

And it was not just Brigham Young teaching that Michael/Adam is our Heavenly Father. About this doctrine, the August 25, 1854 Millenial Star said:

If, as Elder Caffall remarked, there are those who are waiting at the door of the Church for this objection to be removed, tell such, the Prophet and Apostle Brigham has declared it, and that it is the word of the Lord. That is vastly stronger proof than Christendom can give.

Here's where you can read about Orson Pratt almost being removed from the Quorum of the Twelve for contradicting Brigham Young about the Adam-God doctrine:

http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/docume ... OSHOW=2878

Bruce R. McConkie admitted that Brigham Young taught the Adam-God doctrine:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... s/Adam-God

Yes, President Young did teach that Adam was the father of our spirits, and all the related things that the [polygamous] cultists ascribe to him. This, however, is not true. He expressed views that are out of harmony with the gospel.
_gdemetz
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Re: davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

Post by _gdemetz »

These latest posts are so full of contradictions! Birham Young did not believe in the Virgin Birth. and one comment here claims that he did, and the other that he didn't! He taught plainly as recorded in the discourses of Brigham Young the the Father begat Christ instead of letting another man do it. One comment here states that the Father, Elohim, fathered Adam, which is what he taught, and the other states otherwise! You guys can't have it both ways. Either you must believe that Brigham Young was a madman, or else except the explaination which I gave. I already explained some of the comments that you showed here.
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Re: davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

Post by _gdemetz »

Also, the teachings that Adam (or Michael) is the father of our spirits is not found in the standard works.
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Re: davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

Post by _gdemetz »

Also, what you have stated is correct. Heavenly Father is the grandfather of Adam's children since He fathered Adam.
_Nightlion
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Re: davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

Post by _Nightlion »

Darth J wrote:Bruce R. McConkie admitted that Brigham Young taught the Adam-God doctrine:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_ ... s/Adam-God

Yes, President Young did teach that Adam was the father of our spirits, and all the related things that the [polygamous] cultists ascribe to him. This, however, is not true. He expressed views that are out of harmony with the gospel.

Back in the days before President Benson when the doctrinal conflict about my expounding the end from the beginning got the slightest airing, under Hinckley's sycophants in my home stake of East Millcreek, there was a slight chance I might have been allowed to sit with Elder McConkie since everyone was utterly incompetent to correct me as if that were possible. Makes me wonder if Hinckley got his way at that too. McConkie was one man who knew enough that I could have made him admit I was right. Never happened.

Man, what if he had lived well into the internet age?
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Re: davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

Post by _Nightlion »

gdemetz wrote:These latest posts are so full of contradictions! Birham Young did not believe in the Virgin Birth. and one comment here claims that he did, and the other that he didn't! He taught plainly as recorded in the discourses of Brigham Young the the Father begat Christ instead of letting another man do it. One comment here states that the Father, Elohim, fathered Adam, which is what he taught, and the other states otherwise! You guys can't have it both ways. Either you must believe that Brigham Young was a madman, or else except the explaination which I gave. I already explained some of the comments that you showed here.


How do you figure Brigham Young Trump's scripture? Joseph Smith said that if anyone could show by one word of scripture where he was in error he would denounce it as far as he had promulgated it. DarthJ can supply you with the exact quote if you need it. Its on page 327 Oh well here it is I will type it out for you:
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith page 327 paragraph 4.
If any man will prove to me, by one passage of Holy Writ, one item I believe, to be false, I will renounce and disclaim it as far as I promulgated it.
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_gdemetz
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Re: davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

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I never stated that Brigham Young trumped scripture. On the contrary, he was the one to show the world just exactly how the sriptures are true which state that Adam was made from the dust of the earth and at the same time, the son of God!
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Re: davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

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gdemetz wrote:Also, what you have stated is correct. Heavenly Father is the grandfather of Adam's children since He fathered Adam.

Not so. Heavenly Father did NOT father Adam in the same way that Adam fathered his children. This is false doctrine. God the Very Eternal Father ONLY works by the word of his power which are his commandments. He is not carnal nor sensual. REAL what I have written.

Here is another great mystery opened up:

D&C 29:30-35
30 But remember that all my judgments are not given unto men; and as the words have gone forth out of my mouth even so shall they be fulfilled, that the first shall be last, and that the last shall be first in all things whatsoever I have created by the word of my power, which is the power of my Spirit.
31 For by the power of my Spirit created I them; yea, all things both spiritual and temporal—
32 First spiritual, secondly temporal, which is the beginning of my work; and again, first temporal, and secondly spiritual, which is the last of my work—
33 Speaking unto you that you may naturally understand; but unto myself my works have no bend, neither beginning; but it is given unto you that ye may understand, because ye have asked it of me and are agreed.
34 Wherefore, verily I say unto you that all things unto me are spiritual, and not at any time have I given unto you a law which was temporal; neither any man, nor the children of men; neither Adam, your father, whom I created.
35 Behold, I gave unto him that he should be an agent unto himself; and I gave unto him commandment, but no temporal commandment gave I unto him, for my commandments are spiritual; they are not natural nor temporal, neither carnal nor sensual.


This logic is needed to accept the logic of my creation chronology. The Lord declares that he created all things both spiritual and temporal BUT he did it by the world of his power which are his commandments by the power of his Spirit.

Here Elder Rigdon and mark it well, for the Lord declares FOUR stages of creation. The LDS adolescent recreational sophist can only account for three. But there are four. Count them. Two in the beginning, one is spiritual and one is temporal. Then another two in the end where one is temporal and one is spiritual. HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR FOUR major stages of creation Elder Rigdon? hmmm?

Now remember that God takes credit for creation when his commandments are obeyed. Even though Adam and Eve began the world God takes credit for creating all things because he commanded it to be so. He does not have to do the actual sexual carnal begetting of children to take the honor of it all unto himself and call them all his handiwork. Even his own children which he caused to be made.

Anyways, count backward with me. The last crreation in the end must be resurrection and it is counted spiritiual.....why?.,,,,because it is done purely by the word of God's power, to come forth. Before that the temporal creation in the end of God's work is our present physical reality. It is called temporal because it is not done purely by the world of God's power by by way of the continuation of the seeds as it was begun from Eden after the fall by exalted parents.

Now step back into the pre-existence before mortal birth and figure that the temporal creation in the beginning was also accomplished by way of the continuation of the seeds by exalted parents. This is where our spirit bodies where brought forth. Again by way of commandment of God and thereby he owns it as his own work even though exalted seed bearers did the begotting.

That's as far as Mormonism can logically go. They hit a brick wall even though there is plenty of scripture to take them back further. Before the seed bearers were brought forth and given a world and commanded to multiply and replenish it there was WHAT? The organization of intelligence. How so? According to D&C 93 light and truth was appointed to independent spheres of existence. By whom? God the Very Eternal Father. (Father of that which is eternal or light and truth which he brought into existence by the commanding word of his power even the power of his Only Begotten and by the power of the Holy Ghost. All three acted together as the Great God which is one God from all eternity to all eternity to make the first creation in the beginning which was spiritual because it was not by way of the seeds but by the word of his power as is the resurrection in the end. Thus tying the end from the beginning as one eternal round.

Read what I write and stop blowing it off.
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Re: davidlory on youtube regarding Adam-God

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gdemetz wrote:I never stated that Brigham Young trumped scripture. On the contrary, he was the one to show the world just exactly how the sriptures are true which state that Adam was made from the dust of the earth and at the same time, the son of God!


Brigham was so badly wrong there is no way you can square him with scripture. He knew a little and was mostly a danger for it.

Dust huh. And how did he show that better than what I just did. Have you read it yet?
He said that if Adam were made of the dust of the earth he would be an adobe to this day..........hardee har har....what an idiot!
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