The Light of Christ

[_Polygamy-Porter]

Oh boy.

We either have a
-exmo in chapel mo clothes
-internet mo in chapel mo clothes
-chapel mo about to get his testimony raped by the 800 pound gorilla named tRuth and handed to him

[_gdemetz]

Steelhead, I am a convert to the church, and before I joined, I examined many religions. I never found one who even claimed a small fraction of the things Joseph Smith and company claimed. The personal appearance of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ along with so many angelic visitations as well as glorious visions and revelations. Of course, I was very skeptical at first, but after much study and prayer, I now know that these things are true. What other church even claims Elijah has come back in fulfillment of Old Testament prophesy, and there are so many other examples like this!

[Guest]

You use that word..... know. What does it mean to "know that the church is true"?

Do familiarity and conviction equate knowledge?

You are also claiming that the extent of the miracles of the restoration are greater than that of the life and atonement of Jesus? Or am I misunderstanding you?

Also, why the SLC version of Mormonism instead of the RLDS, FLDS, Strangites, or Bickertonites? If Joseph Smith is so pivotal.....

[_gdemetz]

If you look at my comments on page 7 of "The LDS Members and the Kingdom of God," I think that the experience I described there would be a good answer to your question. As great as the miracles of the restoration were, they are still not as great as Christ's miracles, and, in particular, His atonement and resurrection.

[_Nightlion]

First of all, let me state that the reasons that I am writing this are twofold. The first is to show the beauty of non-man made, revealed religion, and the second is to try and dispel the myths associated with the athansian creed. The omnipresent entity in the universe is not any of the Godhead, but the light of Christ which is imminently connected to the Godhead. The vast "seas" of intelligences in the matter throughout the universe make up what is termed the light of Christ. As D&C 88 states, it is in all things, and it is, in fact, the power of God itself. Satan coveted this power, which was God's honor (see D&C 29) given by all these intelligences which sustain and support Him, not by force, but by their free will. This is how miracles are performed by natural law. These intelligences in the matter will obey God and move mountains at His command.This is the power Satan coveted. Furthermore, all those who "have been cleansed from sin every whit," as the Book of Mormon states, and have the priesthood authority from God, can also be delegated this power. THe Book of Mormon also states truly that if God were not just then He would cease to be God. Why? Because all these intelligences which make up the light of Christ would no longer support an unjust God, and His power would dissolve. Of course, I am confident that will never happen! Now I would like to ask a question. What man made religion could come up with such glorious truths?!?

Not bad. I have said as much for more than thirty years. Do not fall into the trap of thinking that the medium of Light and Truth that fills the universe is independent from God and can pick and choose of itself whom it will obey or disobey by its own cognitive collective thought. That would be like BH Roberts who imagined a power above the Godheads the god maker, whom, to Roberts, was an unknowable essence of philosophical bla bla bla merging LDS with the fashions of the world New Mormon Renaissance crap. I am not making this up. I wrote up a paper against Roberts back in the day of my devoted historical studies.

It was the existence of God that called all light and truth unto himself and put it to good use. He comprehended it and could rightly divide it for his names glory. If God ever ceased to be God it would be like turning off a switch and light and truth ceased as well. What that light is can be separated into independent spheres of existence after God commands it and provides it with knowledge respective to that sphere and element each particle of light and truth is given by right of God's assignment. See D&C 93. Without God light and truth can do nothing. It could only wait until God exists once again.

[_SteelHead]

GD,
I read the pg 7 that you linked to and it mentions a spiritual witness.

Some questions:

The process of the creation of the Quran is also quite miraculous, and the growth of Islam seems a much better match for the prophecy of Daniel in regards to the stone cut without hands filling the world. Why is Islam not the "true path"? Or is it as valid as other revealed religions?

Imagine if you would a devout FLDS sister. She has a witness of the spirit that Warren Jeffs is the true prophet of the lord, that the FLDS church is true, that the LDS church is in apostasy, and the she as a sister wife is fulfilling the will of god in regards to her life. Is your witness more valid/reliable than hers? Why or why not? They are both based on the same restoration narrative.

Tobin is a regular poster here. He believes that the Book of Mormon is a historical work detailing the events it describes and is the literal word of god translated by Joseph Smith. Yet Tobin claims that many of the current church teachings, policies, and doctrines are in error. Tobin claims to have seen god, making him in every bit of the word as much as an apostle as Paul or any of the LDS inc 15. Is Tobin's witness as valid as yours? Is his proclamation that the church is in error in some of its practices valid? He is an apostle after all.

Nighlion practices a type phrenology of mountains looking for god's will in the bumps and crags of the apocalrock. He (now correct me if I am wrong) affirms that the LDS church is in apostasy and many of its teaching are in error. Is his witness less valid/reliable than yours?

All claim the "beauty of revealed gospel" and most share a common root.

Are all correct? All equally valid? Or is one more valid/reliable/certain/correct than the others? Why or why not?

[_Tobin]

Tobin is a regular poster here. He believes that the Book of Mormon is a historical work detailing the events it describes and is the literal word of god translated by Joseph Smith. Yet Tobin claims that many of the current church teachings, policies, and doctrines are in error. Tobin claims to have seen god, making him in every bit of the word as much as an apostle as Paul or any of the LDS inc 15. Is Tobin's witness as valid as yours? Is his proclamation that the church is in error in some of its practices valid? He is an apostle after all.

Incorrect. I've seen God. That does not make me an apostle. It does make me a theist and I can state that in fact I know there is a God. My opinions on other matters do not necessarily carry the same degree of knowledge.

[_SteelHead]

Tobin, you better go look up the definition of apostle and the history of Paul's apostolic claim.

[_Tobin]

Tobin, you better go look up the definition of apostle and the history of Paul's apostolic claim.

I wasn't called like Paul. I can tell you that there is a God if you are interested. If God shows up and gives me some additional insight, I'll be happy to relate it.

[Guest]

Tobin,
We can quibble about definitions but, how does seeing god and subsequently testifying about it not make you a defacto apostle?

Paul taught and ministered for the better part of ten years between his vision and his formal ordination. He at oft times affirmed his apostolic calling, defending it based on the event of his conversion.