FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

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_DarkHelmet
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Re: FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

Post by _DarkHelmet »

From the article:

In responding to criticism that FAIR is simply a group of very conservative members, who are either paid apologists for the Church or write very biased and one-sided articles, Gordon clarified that FAIR is made up of volunteers who come from a variety of backgrounds: "We have Republicans, Democrats, libertarians, socialists, members with same sex attraction, Ex-FLDS, Ex-anti-Mormons, and for a while we even had one Catholic."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... z1rB2Jz319


holy crap, democrats, socialists, and gays. In other words, people who are not Mormons in good standing are allowed in. How can we trust anything they write?
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_DrW
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Re: FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

Post by _DrW »

DarkHelmet wrote:From the article:

In responding to criticism that FAIR is simply a group of very conservative members, who are either paid apologists for the Church or write very biased and one-sided articles, Gordon clarified that FAIR is made up of volunteers who come from a variety of backgrounds: "We have Republicans, Democrats, libertarians, socialists, members with same sex attraction, Ex-FLDS, Ex-anti-Mormons, and for a while we even had one Catholic."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... z1rB2Jz319


holy crap, democrats, socialists, and gays. In other words, people who are not Mormons in good standing are allowed in. How can we trust anything they write?

DarkHelmet,

I thought of this passage was a bit of hyperbole. Maybe not.

It would be interesting to know for sure, so perhaps someone should ask FAIR (or DCP) to identify these heterodox individuals.

After all, if they really work with FAIR, why would they not be proud of that lofty calling?
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DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
_Spurven Ten Sing
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Re: FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

Post by _Spurven Ten Sing »

I know for a fact the guy who cleaned Scott Gordon's carpet was Catholic.
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_DrW
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Re: FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

Post by _DrW »

Spurven Ten Sing wrote:I know for a fact the guy who cleaned Scott Gordon's carpet was Catholic.

I trust that we talking metaphorically here, as in "ate his lunch" or "cleaned his clock" - yes?
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."

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_Tator
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Re: FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

Post by _Tator »

Spurven Ten Sing wrote:I know for a fact the guy who cleaned Scott Gordon's carpet was Catholic.


why me ? perhaps?
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_Doctor Scratch
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Re: FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

There are a number of things that seem problematic about this. For starters: who paid the (rather exorbitant) bill for this? Did Gordon pay for this out of his own pocket, or instead did he tap into the coffers of the FAIR volunteers' donations? My second question is this: Why does FAIR need or want press in national news outlets? The thing is: there is really a whole lot of history here, and all of the dirty and ugly history of FAIR is a mere couple of clicks away. Sure: they divested themselves of their messageboard (sort of), but it's easy enough to track down all of the crappy things they've done. Plus, their key personnel--Gordon, Allen Wyatt, Mike Parker, John Lynch, DCP, and so on--are all figures with checkered pasts. I mean, how would they typical reader react to the stuff that Allen Wyatt did with his cyber-squatting? In addition to dumping the messageboard, they have also seemingly distanced themselves from Juliann and Will Schryver, though there is still a historical connection between all of them.

Then there is the issue of the "press release" itself. It is staggeringly dishonest:

Scott Gordon, President of FAIR, addressed the Mormonism and the Internet conference at Utah Valley University on Thursday and explained the history and purpose of the most prominent Mormon apologetics organization.


Uh, no. FARMS/ The Maxwell Institute is still the most prominent apologetics organization, even if they are trying to eschew the word "apologetics."

"We decided that FAIR was there to provide information and not to debate."


Does Gordon not read the entries on the FAIR Wiki? Many of them are bristling with anger and hostility. Maybe the FAIR people are not publicly and openly debating, but the spirit of vicious polemics most certainly informs what they do. Instead, they have retreated, and now they are hiding behind organizational labels like "FAIR" or "Mormon Voices." Most of the FAIR volunteers won't even put their names on the "information" they produce.

FAIR's award-winning podcast


What award was this, exactly? Was it something that was awarded by an outside organization? For some reason, I suspect that this award was given to FAIR by, say, SHIELDS, or FARMS, or some other Mopologetics-friendly organization.

Scott Gordon wrote:"We have Republicans, Democrats, libertarians, socialists, members with same sex attraction, Ex-FLDS, Ex-anti-Mormons, and for a while we even had one Catholic."
(emphasis added)

What the? They have somebody with SSA, and this is widely known within the organization? Or, at least, it is widely known enough that Gordon feels comfortable enough tossing this comment out there in a national publication? How does the inclusion and involvement of this person this work, exactly? Kudos to them if they are actually being tolerant towards this person (or persons?), though I have to admit that I'm skeptical about this? (Who on earth would this be, I wonder?)

When asked by an audience member if apologists really understand the experiences of those who are struggling with their faith, or who have left the Church, Gordon noted that many members of FAIR have family members and friends who have left the church, and some FAIR members themselves have lost their faith and then returned to the Church.


Does anyone--including Gordon himself--actually believe this?
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Dr. Shades
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Re: FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

Post by _Dr. Shades »

Doctor Scratch wrote:. . . they have also seemingly distanced themselves from Juliann and Will Schryver, . . .

Wait, what? Is this a new development? I thought she was on their board of directors or whatever.
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_Doctor Scratch
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Re: FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Doctor Scratch wrote:. . . they have also seemingly distanced themselves from Juliann and Will Schryver, . . .

Wait, what? Is this a new development? I thought she was on their board of directors or whatever.


No, I don't think that's the case, Shades. I think that Juliann wound up getting disenchanted with the harsh polemics and began to distance herself from a lot of the stuff, though it may be that we still see her influence through "The Hand of Nemesis," as it were, but I don't think she really has much to do with FAIR. Further, I don't think they really want her on board all that much due to the wide circulation that her "Transcript Episode" received.

It's remarkable that, as much as FAIR and the Mopologists complain about "anonymous cowards" and what have you, they are pretty much a case study in the lack of transparency. To no small extent, they rely heavily on anonymity and pseudonymity--e.g., Wiki Wonka, who is probably the foremost online proponent of the silly and tendentious (by his own admission) FAIR Wiki. They are hiding--they don't want to be held accountable for their Mopologetics. Maybe you remember an old thread I did inquiring into this, where I mentioned Mike Parker, and out of the blue, he turned up to complain and whine? That precisely underscores my point.

Re: the actual FAIR board, I know that DCP and Kevin Barney are both on it. John Lynch and Scott Gordon are likely on it as well, or else they have an equivalent amount of power. The presence of Prof. Peterson on the board pretty much tells you everything you need to know in terms of what FAIR's ultimate intentions are. The fact that Wyatt, Gordon, Schryver, Parker, and others are involved is just lagniappe.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Infymus
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Re: FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

Post by _Infymus »

If Mormonism was "honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men" no negative website would exist, period.

But it isn't honest. It isn't true. It isn't chaste. It isn't benevolent. It isn't virtuous - and it seriously doesn't do "good to all men" - it does good to "a select group of men".

Mormonism. Yeah, Mormonism.
_sock puppet
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Re: FAIR and the Best Press Money Can Buy

Post by _sock puppet »

Bond James Bond wrote:FAIR might want to change their name: Foundation for Apologetics Is Ludicrous. Although they might have to pay extra for the domain faillds.com.

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