direct descendants of Jesus

[_gdemetz]

As far as Jesus living the word of wisdom is concerned, He did. "As the new wine hangs in its clusters, destroy it not for there is a blessing therein." He was not really a "drinking man" as many have accused Him of. The Bible condemns those who partake of "strong drink." Many instances referring to wine mentioned in the Bible, such as the one I mentioned above, are actually what we would call grape juice today.

[_SteelHead]

Which flies directly in the face of the miracle at the wedding of Cana where the guest questioned why the good wine was saved till last, and the references to putting new wine into old bottles; which refers to the "bottles" bursting as they are stretched anew from the fermenting process. The bottles being wine skins.

Jesus drank wine, Noah drank wine (and got drunk), Joesph Smith drank non sacramental wine on his last night on Earth. All the wine I am referencing was alcoholic.

Try again.

[_beefcalf]

Many instances referring to wine mentioned in the Bible, such as the one I mentioned above, are actually what we would call grape juice today.

I heard this same delusional fantasy from my mother when I began noticing the obvious disconnect between the WOW and the actual practices of pre-refrigeration peoples.

It is a common approach deluded members use to quell the cognitive dissonance.

[_gdemetz]

Steralhead, the best wine for has, perhaps a different meaning. It was the newest of freshest.

[_Drifting]

As far as Jesus living the word of wisdom is concerned, He did. "As the new wine hangs in its clusters, destroy it not for there is a blessing therein." He was not really a "drinking man" as many have accused Him of. The Bible condemns those who partake of "strong drink." Many instances referring to wine mentioned in the Bible, such as the one I mentioned above, are actually what we would call grape juice today.

Troll.

[_SteelHead]

No it means the strongest and most potent. Did you not read "Jesus the Christ"?

You are also apparently ignorant of the role of wine in Jewish society, and in ancient societies.

[_gdemetz]

Yes, I read that book. Why don't you give me a page reference?

[Guest]

SteelHead, you are doing it all wrong. If you want to make a Mormon shutup about wine references in the scriptures being on grape juice, you have to quote the Book of Mormon at them.

1 Nephi 4:7 Nevertheless I went forth, and as I came near unto the house of Laban I beheld a man, and he had fallen to the earth before me, for he was drunken with wine.

2 Nephi 8:21 Therefore hear now this, thou afflicted, and drunken, and not with wine:

2 Nephi 5:11 Wo unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink, that continue until night, and wine inflame them!

2 Nephi 27:4 For behold, all ye that doeth iniquity, stay yourselves and wonder, for ye shall cry out, and cry; yea, ye shall be drunken but not with wine, ye shall stagger but not with strong drink.

Mosiah 22:7 And I will go according to thy command and pay the last tribute of wine to the Lamanites, and they will be drunken; and we will pass through the secret pass on the left of their camp when they are drunken and asleep.
Mosiah 22:8 Thus we will depart with our women and our children, our flocks, and our herds into the wilderness; and we will travel around the land of Shilom.
Mosiah 22:9 And it came to pass that the king hearkened unto the words of Gideon.
Mosiah 22:10 And king Limhi caused that his people should gather their flocks together; and he sent the tribute of wine to the Lamanites; and he also sent more wine, as a present unto them;and they did drink freely of the wine which king Limhi did send unto them.

Ether 15:22 And when the night came they were drunken with anger, even as a man who is drunken with wine; and they slept again upon their swords.

Yeah, that is NOT grape juice.

[_gdemetz]

Tobin, I did not state that every time the Bible mentioned wine that it was grape juice. My statement was that it didn't always mean wine as we think of it today, and the verse I gave showed that.

[Guest]

Jesus The Christ

pg 146

It was customary to provide at wedding feasts a sufficiency of wine, the pure though weak product of the local vineyards, which was the ordinary table beverage of the time. On this occasion the supply of wine was exhausted, and Mary told Jesus of the deficiency. Said He: "Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come." The noun of address, "Woman," as applied by a son to his mother may sound to our ears somewhat harsh, if not disrespectful; but its use was really an expression of opposite import.[332] To every son, the mother ought to be preeminently the woman of women; she is the one woman in the world to whom the son owes his earthly existence; and though the title "Mother" belongs to every woman who has earned the honors of maternity, yet to no child is there more than one woman whom by natural right he can address by that title of respectful acknowledgment. When, in the last dread[Pg 145] scenes of His mortal experience, Christ hung in dying agony upon the cross, He looked, down upon the weeping Mary, His mother, and commended her to the care of the beloved apostle John, with the words: "Woman, behold thy son!"[333] Can it be thought that in this supreme moment, our Lord's concern for the mother from whom He was about to be separated by death was associated with any emotion other than that of honor, tenderness and love?[334]

Nevertheless, His words to Mary at the marriage feast may have conveyed a gentle reminder of her position as the mother of a Being superior to herself; even as on that earlier occasion when she had found her Boy, Jesus, in the temple, He had brought home to her the fact that her jurisdiction over Him was not supreme. The manner in which she told Him of the insufficiency of wine probably suggested an intimation that He use His more than human power, and by such means supply the need. It was not her function to direct or even to suggest the exercize of the power inherent in Him as the Son of God; such had not been inherited from her. "What have I to do with thee?" He asked; and added: "Mine hour is not yet come." Here we find no disclaimer of the ability to do what she apparently wanted Him to do, but the plain implication that He would act only when the time was right for the purpose, and that He, not she, must decide when that time had come. She understood His meaning, in part at least, and contented herself by instructing the servants to do whatsoever He directed. Here again is evidence of her position of responsibility and domestic authority at the social gathering.

The time for His intervention soon arrived. There stood within the place six water pots;[335] these He directed the servants to fill with water. Then, without audible command or[Pg 146] formula of invocation, as best we know, He caused to be effected a transmutation within the pots, and when the servants drew therefrom, it was wine, not water that issued. At a Jewish social gathering, such as was this wedding festival, some one, usually a relative of the host or hostess, or some other one worthy of the honor, was made governor of the feast, or, as we say in this day, chairman, or master of ceremonies. To this functionary the new wine was first served; and he, calling the bridegroom, who was the real host, asked him why he had reserved his choice wine till the last, when the usual custom was to serve the best at the beginning, and the more ordinary later. The immediate result of this, the first recorded of our Lord's miracles, is thus tersely stated by the inspired evangelist: "This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him."[336]

pg 197

In such wise did our Lord proclaim the newness and completeness of His gospel. It was in no sense a patching up of Judaism. He had not come to mend old and torn garments; the cloth He provided was new, and to sew it on the old would be but to tear afresh the threadbare fabric and leave a more unsightly rent than at first. Or to change the figure, new wine could not safely be entrusted to old bottles. The bottles here referred to were really bags, made of the skins of animals, and of course they deteriorated with age. Just as old leather splits or tears under even slight strain, so the old bottle-skins would burst from the pressure of fermenting juice, and the good wine would be lost. The gospel taught by Christ was a new revelation, superseding the past, and marking the fulfilment of the law; it was no mere addendum, nor was it a reenactment of past requirements; it embodied a new and an everlasting covenant. Attempts to patch the Judaistic robe of traditionalism with the new fabric of the covenant could result in nothing more sightly than a rending of the fabric. The new wine of the gospel could not be held in the old time-worn containers of Mosaic libations. Judaism would be belittled and Christianity perverted by any such incongruous association.[426]

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And said unto him, Every man at the beginning does set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but you have kept the good wine until now.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And he said to him: “Every man first calls for the good wine, and when they are drunk, then that which is inferior, but you have kept the good wine until now.”

Might not have had the alcoholic content of modern wine, but it had alcohol.