Conscientious Alternative to Mormonism

[_MCB]

just me


What is the "truth?"

Whenever I post at CAF, I also post this:
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/
It was developed in a continuous process over 2000 years, not counting the Old Testament. Based on scripture. Take what you want, and leave the rest. I'm rarely this direct here, respecting the diversity of posters.

[_sock puppet]

Sock Puppet,

Do you really think peoples God belief solely stems from a carrot and a stick? Do you have any study that removes that from your mere opinion?

mikwut

I think that for a great many, that they act in fear of god's possible wrath and/or in ways to earn a reward, regardless of belief in god, just due to the possibility given other people's talking and preaching that there is such awaiting us after we die.

I do not think fear or reward are the source from which belief stems. I think that the possibility of such, and a conservative desire to 'hedge one's bets', leads to actions that are consistent with the god/eternal reward myths.

There simply have never been enough that actually believe in god's existence (due to a dearth of evidence for such) for those that use religion to seek power and influence over others to the extent that they desire. So, those using the leverage have extended its reach through the fear/reward notions to exact conforming behavior from non-believers as well.

[_Nightlion]

The "true" church is the church of God. It is all those that believe in God and are willing to do what God says. Mormonism does not have a monopoly on this truth. And the Mormon Church it is only as true as far as the members are willing to seek God and do what God says. It is untrue when people refrain from doing that and do what the leaders (men) of the Church say or have faith in the Church itself (or falsely it's history). The problems with Mormonism have always been people doing what these men say instead of what God says or believing something false they have taught instead of checking with God first.

I agree that the truth is ONLY in doing what God says. The trouble is every sort of sort gives out just what part of what God says actually should be done. What is your sort of God said truth? Obviously I got my sort. Wonders what yours is. And what hinders Zion if there are two or more who do all the God says? What would that be?

[_mikwut]

Sock,

I still await an answer previous to this.

So, OK you answer is you think some do. Fair enough it doesn't answer anything deeper than that.

Still, do you have anything but your own personal opinion to evidentially show warrant to your position. That is an atheist creed isn't it?

mikwut

[_sock puppet]

Sock,

Then you agree that science yields more morality, by ever seeking truth, than religion that asks the truth seeker to stop his pursuit and wait until 'god's due time' to reveal it rather than pressing god for an explanation now?

How does that follow from what I asked? Science somehow has a moral growth meter? What is a specific example of what you are talking about?

mikwut

mikwut,

You asked rhetorically, 'What in the world does mature or grow morally mean if morality isn't a truth seeking faculty?' Morality develops and becomes greater. You tied morality with 'truth seeking faculty'. Comparing religion and science as truth seeking faculties, science is greater. It provides more explanations and answers more questions than does religion. So if morality is measured by the faculty of truth seeking, then science tops religion in the morality department.

[Guest]

Sock,

What is an example of a moral fact, principle, duty, or truth that science has answered for us?

mikwut

[_sock puppet]

Sock,

I still await an answer previous to this.

So, OK you answer is you think some do. Fair enough it doesn't answer anything deeper than that.

Still, do you have anything but your own personal opinion to evidentially show warrant to your position. That is an atheist creed isn't it?

mikwut

Do you have studies that show that religious behaviors are not motivated by fear of god/eternal consequences? Your call for evidence from me is based on your own assumption, sans evidence of the type you ask from me.

[_Nightlion]

What is the "truth?"

That is the question, isn't it?

Even science knows that truth is discovered when results are repeatable from working the precise methodology.

That is why I was raised up such as I was, to clear off all the overburden that encumbers the correct methodology in discovering how to come unto Christ correctly and get the promised result.

I know that I have pooped my pants on this board being too blunt about who I am. But I am what I am.

[Guest]

Sock,

[evidence for] religious behaviors are not motivated by fear of god/eternal consequences?

First the issue is morality and conscience from the OP. Your moving and shifting is confusing. My experience of basic moral intuition is my evidence. I don't need further because it is the very basic seemingness of the experience just as if a tree was seemingly in front of me you would bear a burden of evidence to show me I am mistaken. You wouldn't just say to a man his common sense is mistaken you would provide evidence that it actually is.

You are producing a psychological argument that needs to be supported.

mikwut

[_sock puppet]

Sock,

What is an example of a moral fact, principle, duty, or truth that science has answered for us?

mikwut

I am far from an ethicist, but I can provide you examples:

By debunking myths with better explanations, science allows mankind to better utilize its resources to accomplish its goals. This efficiency is morally superior to the shackled results that those operating under myths were limited.

Engineering developments that allow for man to meet his basic needs through devotion of less of his time and efforts have allowed for him to have excess, excess with which he has been able to have real choice and in making those choices, learn to help his fellow man more.

Another example are the theories that John Nash has developed and have been incorporated into market economics, and better utilization of resources, allowing wealth to build and to be used to help avoid starvation, dehydration, and disease.