Conscientious Alternative to Mormonism

[_Buffalo]

The conscientious alternative to any superstition is secular humanism.

[_sock puppet]

Hello sock,

You look outside yourself to a 'god' for morality, I look outside myself to society and societal dynamics for morality.

I claim God can provide a creation and by his nature provide for the nature of morality that goes deeper and beyond a social framework created by humans. When you say "I look outside myself to society and societal dynamics for morality" that's fine, but don't twist language to also claim that that somehow provides a brute intrinsic value to persons, it doesn't. Intrinsic means belonging to the essential nature or constitution of a thing. You claim by your statement above that society provides whatever value you are following and it is simply constructed by society. Society has provided in history manifold different value systems and constructions so we know that the societal frameworks aren't intrinsic to persons. You also don't understand what most believers, by that I mean mature believers (not the carrot and stick straw men you utilized previously) mean by God. If you think it correlates 1 - 1 with society your just misinformed.

Your presumptive arrogance is again evident in your diss'ing my external source but assuming your own external source is beyond reproach.

What arrogance, that is just plain silly. And why care anyway. God by definition is beyond reproach that is descriptive not arrogant. I am not 'diss'ing' your external source I making sure that it is categorized appropriately. You are the one failing to provide proper description. Being properly descriptive isn't the same thing as 'diss'ing'.

My original post quoted Nietzche in describing unbelievers just like you as those who take the Christian morals and pretend like there isn't the least inconsistency, “Moral judgments agree with religious ones in believing in realities which are no realities” and that "There are no moral facts." Throughout our conversation you seem to be proving that correct at least for you - you just don't come right out and say it for some reason we have to squeeze it out of you and parse definitions. Society creates morals for you, fair enough, so they aren't facts they are societal constructions. What part of my initial post is it your finding fault with? The societal construction is a fact, but the moral duty is not - it is no different than fashion or politics, or the Mormon church for that matter - created by men and foisted on you, and you decide to follow it. But you aren't duty bound ontologically, metaphysically, or theologically or anything - you just go with the flow of society. It is at least worth pointing out that irony exists that the false reality of the Mormon church is so easily stated and recognized but the thoughtful reflection doesn't further itself to morals which aren't just said to be 'realities which are no realities'.

Let me also point out, this is a quote from my original post, "The author of the OP can surely correct me but by the second quote I understand one who accepts the dictates of conscience as not mere illusion and social creation" - You haven't disagreed with me, I really think you are just reading things into my posts that aren't there.

mikwut

Claiming other posters have not understood your posts is your tired old refrain (retreat) whenever you get backed into a corner.

[_mikwut]

Sock,

I'm not in a corner. I have consistently supported my original post. You have misread, misdefined and casted aspersions like arrogance instead of defend your own opinion. Your entitled to it.

If you don't have any substance, good day.

mikwut

[_sock puppet]

Sock,

I'm not in a corner. I have consistently supported my original post. You have misread, misdefined and casted aspersions like arrogance instead of defend your own opinion. Your entitled to it.

If you don't have any substance, good day.

mikwut

Brazil--It's a State of Mind!!

[_KevinSim]

Given the OP Kevinsim sees the tree, so do I - you are the one claiming otherwise.

Wow, Milkwut, what tree do I see?

[_Corpsegrinder]

Is it possible to be a Christian if one strives to follow the humanitarian example of Christ while rejecting the supernatural elements of the Christ myth?

I think so. To be a Christian means that one agrees, believes, and embraces that Jesus is God. Can't get more supernatural than that.

???
Do you mean to say you don't think so?

[_KevinSim]

You both presume that only god-believers are moral. Prove up.

Hold on here! There's a big difference between asking what the moral alternative is to the LDS Church and presuming that only god-believers are moral. I've never presumed that only god-believers are moral. I genuinely want to know if there is an alternative to Mormonism that might appeal to people of conscience.

[_KevinSim]

The first is a problem for certain Christians and the latter for Mormons. I am neither.

Milkwut, do you have an answer to the original question I asked? Are you aware of a conscientious alternative to Mormonism?

[_KevinSim]

The ideas of Christlike life are not solely Christian, and don't need religion, LDS or other, to live that way. We do so for many other reasons. I think MCB's earlier post may be the best one in this thread.

You didn't answer my question. Why should a person with a conscience live a Christ-like life?

[_Hoops]

Is it possible to be a Christian if one strives to follow the humanitarian example of Christ while rejecting the supernatural elements of the Christ myth?

I think so. To be a Christian means that one agrees, believes, and embraces that Jesus is God. Can't get more supernatural than that.

???
Do you mean to say you don't think so?

Oops!! Yes, I mean "don't". Thanks.