City Creek, the Great and Spacious

[_Drifting]

3. Church monies are NOT "mingled" at all. The Corporate side of the Church, the For-Profit and other types of entities side is what developed the Mall. Church Funds, tithing etc. are entirely separate from this side of the Church.

And you can show that to be the case, how exactly?

[_TAK]

Which tells me Church monies is far more mingled than LDSLeaders have admitted to.

Sounds like they own it as much as they own a temple or chapel. Just another extension of power. Wow, I guess I won't be spending money there - too much like paying tithing.

Given the Churches failure with the millions lost on Crossroad Mall and the billions invested in the new mall ..it remains to be seen if this new venture makes a profit to pay any taxes. Personally I like the Gateway vibe.

[_Drifting]

Given the Churches failure with the millions lost on Crossroad Mall and the billions invested in the new mall ..it remains to be seen if this new venture makes a profit to pay any taxes. Personally I like the Gateway vibe.

I remember an article in which Burton stated that the net cost of the Mall would be in line with the original budget of $1.5 billion. This means it will cost the Church $1.5 billion AFTER they have realised the income from selling all the condo's and leased all the office and retail space.

The $1.5 billion figure equates to the amount the Church expects to lose on City Creek. Brilliant.

[_TAK]

3. Church monies are NOT "mingled" at all. The Corporate side of the Church, the For-Profit and other types of entities side is what developed the Mall. Church Funds, tithing etc. are entirely separate from this side of the Church.

And you can show that to be the case, how exactly?

Such nonsense..
The Church has millions flowing in each week and uses it for short term and long term needs. If the money is set aside for long term planning it will be invested until needed. If the investment choices are lending it to banks and make maybe 1.5% or lending it to Church ventures such as this mall and make 6% - where do you think they will put that tithing money?
Where would Jesus want that money??

[_Tchild]

I visited the mall last weekend and I have to say I was really underwhelmed. Don't get me wrong it's a nice mall but for the price tag I was expecting something quite remarkable. The luxury goods stores were quite nice but I didn't see them doing much business. However, the Disney Store and the Cheesecake Factory were packed!

Phaedrus

As was I. Underwhelmed that is.

I guess I expected a city scape, a gathering place with streams, greenery and open places for people to sit, relax and people watch on a scale much larger than it was. A person can gather there, but it feels forced and unnatural like some sort of commercialized faux culture like is found on the strip in Las Vegas. It just doesn't have that organic feel that that makes certan urban areas so desireable with their amalgam of local bakeries, coffee shops, cafes, galleries and trendy clothing stores.

The mall is smaller than I imagined and rather cavernous. It is much like the Gateway mall, situated five blocks away, except smaller and more enclosed and confined.

I really hoped for more of an extension of the expansive and relaxing temple square-COB complex with large open areas, serenity ponds and wonderful coloring of fuana and flowers.

I am no urban planner, so I am not sure what might have revitilized Downtown, but I wonder if the Church might have instead invested in more rise living structures, which would have attracted thousands more to live downtown, and then just allowed the natural creative juices to organize organically?

When I saw the "Cheesecake Factory", I realized in a profound way, that not only was the leadership not in contact with God, they weren't even in touch with what constitutes that urban essence that attracts the best and the brightest.

The Cheesecake factory? Salt lake city denizens must be so bland and banal to have such a stupifyingly unoriginal suburban chain as part of the City Creek Center. Uggghh.

[_harmony]

3. Church monies are NOT "mingled" at all. The Corporate side of the Church, the For-Profit and other types of entities side is what developed the Mall. Church Funds, tithing etc. are entirely separate from this side of the Church.

Since every dime the church owns started out as tithing, all profits made from that tithing, including those made by the corporate side of the church, should be used to support the 4 fold mission of the church.... which does not include commerce, real estate, or making more money.

[_Drifting]

3. Church monies are NOT "mingled" at all. The Corporate side of the Church, the For-Profit and other types of entities side is what developed the Mall. Church Funds, tithing etc. are entirely separate from this side of the Church.

Since every dime the church owns started out as tithing, all profits made from that tithing, including those made by the corporate side of the church, should be used to support the 4 fold mission of the church.... which does not include commerce, real estate, or making more money.

It is worth noting that new donation slips carry the disclaimer that whilst every effort will be made to allocate the monies against the fund to which the member wishes it spent, the Church retains the right to spend it on whatever the hell they please. (I've paraphrased).

I suspect that has always been the case.

[_harmony]

It is worth noting that new donation slips carry the disclaimer that whilst every effort will be made to allocate the monies against the fund to which the member wishes it spent, the Church retains the right to spend it on whatever the hell they please. (I've paraphrased).

I suspect that has always been the case.

I'm sure it was too, however, in the past there was a least lipservice paid the mission. Now... let the donor beware. Now it feels more like a MLM con job.

[_Drifting]

It is worth noting that new donation slips carry the disclaimer that whilst every effort will be made to allocate the monies against the fund to which the member wishes it spent, the Church retains the right to spend it on whatever the hell they please. (I've paraphrased).

I suspect that has always been the case.

I'm sure it was too, however, in the past there was a least lipservice paid the mission. Now... let the donor beware. Now it feels more like a MLM con job.

If they way the Church uses donations was faith promoting they would publish the financial accounting. They don't, so it isn't.

[_harmony]

If they way the Church uses donations was faith promoting they would publish the financial accounting. They don't, so it isn't.

Yup. And I wonder if fear of legal action may be the main reason.