Atheism is not a religion, right?

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_Buffalo
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Re: Atheism is not a religion, right?

Post by _Buffalo »

More anti-religious hate speech from the Mormons. This time they're viciously attacking the Lutherans. :(

http://www.LDS.org/ensign/1976/11/a-gos ... n?lang=eng

So said the prophet David O. McKay. To illustrate I would like to share with you a conversion story. The account concerns Louis Novak, a Lutheran minister, and his wife, Alice, and their two children, Kurt and Kristin. Reverend Novak and his wife had been born, baptized, raised, confirmed, and married in the Lutheran Church. It was with a sense of pride on the part of his parents and a sense of duty on his own part that he went through two Lutheran private colleges and a Lutheran theological graduate school to become a pastor in the American Lutheran Church. For nearly fourteen years he and his wife served in the Lutheran Church and endeavored to find truth and spiritual peace. During that period, from all external appearances, they were able to attain a level of income, style of life, social stratum, and educational prestige which left little to be desired. With such stability and high approval from family, friends, and supervisors, it could be said “they had it made.” Yet they were not satisfied. They had haunting insecurity in their souls that something very basic and important was missing in their lives. They could not be satisfied.

The soul that is honest in heart must search.

In Reverend Novak’s words, “As I look back on my life and experience, I realize my dissatisfaction stemmed from a number of areas. [First] I had a deep and negative reaction to my association with my fellow pastors. The strong and seemingly overwhelming stress on church politics, self-advancement, personal glory, financial achievement, and congregational statistics made me feel that true spirituality was seriously lacking.

“[Second] I had deep theological concerns—the order of worship service seemed cold, impersonal, and unimaginative. The great stress on salvation by grace and minimization on works was to me a scriptural contradiction. On contemplating scripture I found that the ‘works’ passages far exceeded the ‘grace’ passages.

“I found myself recoiling at the indifferent reaction of my church leadership to the virgin birth, the creation, the wide acceptance and use of loose translations of scripture and the general lack of response to basic Christian morals.

“Was God really dead, or had He gone into retirement and ceased to care about His creation? Why did He sink into strange and sudden silence with the last word in the Bible?”

On September 1, 1968, Reverend Novak and his family moved to Broomfield, Colorado, where he was made pastor of the Lutheran Church of Hope, a very prestigious and desirable assignment. From all outward appearances it left nothing to be desired, but there was something desperately wrong. Something was missing: there was a feeling of spiritual hollowness in his heart and it was shared equally by his wife, Alice.

Alice was a music educator and in Broomfield she had a number of Latter-day Saint students. She could not help but notice something very special about them. She reported to her husband that she had asked one of her Mormon students if Mormons were Christian. Of course, Reverend Novak knew well the Lutheran position that Mormons were non-Christian. The little Mormon girl boldly stated that Mormons most definitely were Christian.

Alice had been touched by the young girl’s testimony. Next came an invitation from the family of one of the piano students to attend the Broomfield Ward open house. The young student’s family had resisted because they did not think it appropriate to send such an invitation to a Lutheran pastor. But this little girl persisted to the point that the parents reluctantly consented.
On the appointed day Alice was unavailable to attend the open house and Reverend Novak was hosting a regional meeting of the Lutheran Church of Hope. As the time for the open house arrived he had a strange and overpowering urge to leave the Lutheran meeting and attend. He yielded.

As he entered the Latter-day Saint chapel he said he was met by a friendly and concerned gentleman who talked with him and stayed by his side for fully two hours, answering questions, and “just being supportive.”

The Reverend continues, “As the program began, a member of the Seventies made a presentation on the doctrine of the Church which I am sure was inspired by the Holy Spirit. I shall never forget it. From the chapel we were led to the baptismal font by a young priest who explained baptism according to the theology of the Latter-day Saints. This mature presentation by such a young man made a great impression, because I had seriously questioned the Lutheran theology of baptism for years. I sensed that what this young man said was true.

“We then went to the Relief Society room where we were given a beautiful and intelligent presentation. To hear a lovely woman give such a positive and strong testimony was heartwarming to me. We were then ushered into a seminary room to view the film Christ in America. I could hardly contain my excitement as so many of my questions regarding church history were suddenly answered.

“I was currently pursuing a doctorate in religion. Here I was, my doctorate nearly complete and the answers to my quest for the truth coming in the Latter-day Saint chapel! It was probably at this time, at the culmination of so much presented so well, that I was actually converted. I knew that this had to be the true church. My heart was ready but how could I become a part of it all? How hard it is to give up physical security and comfortable tradition. I purchased a Book of Mormon that day and went home elated. I remember telling Alice later, ‘There is something special there. I really felt good at that church. They have something I have never known before.’

“The summer of 1974, after I had received my doctorate, I was in spiritual turmoil. The ward open house remained a haunting reminder that something better was available. One evening the mother of one of the Mormon students called regarding a musical question. For the first time I bared my spiritual turmoil to a patient and understanding ear.

“Not long after this our family was invited to their family home evening. We came away so warmed; yet how impossible it seemed for us to make such a change. My job, security, comfortable life, social standing, family ties, house, pension—it all flooded through my mind. Yet how does one in the name of Jesus Christ preach and teach that which he knows is not true?

“Finally in the fall of 1974, although things were still going well at my parish, I knew in my heart that a change was necessary. I knew I was spiritually starved and I was even more concerned for the spiritual malnutrition of my family.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
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Re: Atheism is not a religion, right?

Post by _Buffalo »

jskains wrote:
Offensive namecalling is different than defensive namecalling, But considering your patterns, I understand your inability to get that.

JMS


This is why parents should crack down on the "he started it" defense early.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_jskains
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Re: Atheism is not a religion, right?

Post by _jskains »

REMOVED DUE TO THREAT
Last edited by Guest on Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition from Mediocre Minds - Albert Einstein
_Buffalo
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Re: Atheism is not a religion, right?

Post by _Buffalo »

jskains wrote:
Actually this entire board is a demonstration of parental lack of teaching basic respect and an interesting look into OCD Thinking.

Especially when it comes to people who obsess over a religion instead of moving on.

JMS


I think what we've learned is that insults and intolerance are completely invisible to you unless directed at Mormonism. Yours is a kind of bizarre Mormon chauvinism.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_lulu
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Re: Atheism is not a religion, right?

Post by _lulu »

jskains wrote:Especially when it comes to people who obsess over a religion instead of moving on.JMS


Who is obsessing over religion?
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Darth J
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Re: Atheism is not a religion, right?

Post by _Darth J »

jskains wrote:
Especially when it comes to people who obsess over a religion instead of moving on.


There are numerous examples of sitcoms that have been cancelled, but reruns of which remain popular in syndication (from The Andy Griffith Show to Seinfeld and beyond). This demonstrates:

(a) a dangerous, pathological obsession.

Or

(b) people still get a laugh out of it after all these years.
_jskains
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Re: Atheism is not a religion, right?

Post by _jskains »

REMOVED DUE TO THREAT
Last edited by Guest on Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition from Mediocre Minds - Albert Einstein
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: Atheism is not a religion, right?

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

You most certainly did try to profit from your "MormonsSuck.com" Web site, jskains. You exchanged emails with a poster on this very thread wherein you tried to sell the site for some exorbitant sum--I believe it was in the six figures.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Buffalo
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Re: Atheism is not a religion, right?

Post by _Buffalo »

jskains wrote:


I think the same claim could be tossed in your direction.


Nope. I don't even care when Mormons and other theists talk incredible smack about atheists. I remain cool and confident. :cool:
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Buffalo
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Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: Atheism is not a religion, right?

Post by _Buffalo »

Doctor Scratch wrote:You most certainly did try to profit from your "MormonsSuck.com" Web site, jskains. You exchanged emails with a poster on this very thread wherein you tried to sell the site for some exorbitant sum--I believe it was in the six figures.


Image
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
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