Conscientious Alternative to Mormonism

[Guest]

Kevin, you clearly mean something by the term, "conscientious alternative" to Mormonism. I, and I'm sure others, are having difficulty understanding what you mean by this term. Your responses indicate that no one is addressing the question.

Please take a moment to elaborate on the term "conscientious alternative" and perhaps we can provide you with better answers.

Thanks for pointing this out to me, LDSToronto. Sometimes I don't see things like that unless someone points it out to me.

I view someone as conscientious if that someone is devoted to doing good things, to best meeting the needs of those around that someone.

What I'm saying is that whether the LDS God actually exists or not, my exposure to the LDS Church has left me with the desire to be conscientious, to work toward preserving as much good as I can, to best meet the needs of those around me. I currently believe that the best way to do that is to follow the lead of a man (that is, Thomas Monson) that I believe is in contact with someone who knows how to preserve forever some good things (that is, God).

If I'm wrong, if Thomas Monson is not in touch with any such forever preserver, then I'm not going to simply throw in the towel on the human race; my conscience won't let me do that. I'm still obligated just as much to work toward the preservation of some good things. And I'm not talking about short range preservation. Helping out my children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren in this life isn't going to satisfy me. My conscience demands that I work towards permanent good, good that isn't going to go away when I die, good that's going to have lasting effect.

Does this clear things up a little? I know I'm asking for a lot, but I don't see how anyone with a sense of what is good in life can afford to work towards anything less.

[_lulu]

The conscientious alternative to any superstition is secular humanism.

Secular Humanism does an adequate job of meeting humanity's short term needs. What does it do for humanity's long term needs? Is Secular Humanism making progress in ensuring that some good things will last forever?

Secular Humanism is making reasonable progress on seeing that the most powerful people's self-interests, which they have to power to define as good, are not getting crammed down everyone else's throats.

PS Nothing lasts forever, trying to make something last forever causes problems.

Trying to control the future
is like trying to take the master carpenter's place.
When you handle the master carpenter's tools,
chances are that you'll cut your hand.
Tao Te Ching

[_lulu]

My conscience demands that I work towards permanent good, good that isn't going to go away when I die, good that's going to have lasting effect. Does this clear things up a little?

Do you see how self-centered that is?

[_KevinSim]

No mention of humanity's serious problems (whatever you mean by those). In stead you ask what is the alternative to the claims of the LDS Church and you have been given a plethora of reasonable responses. I understand why you don't like them, but don't try and say they don't answer your question.

They really don't. People have been giving me alternatives to Mormonism, but I asked for conscientious alternatives, and nobody has given me that yet. Sure I can leave the LDS Church and do great amounts of short-term good, but that's not necessarily going to help out anyone in the long run. My point is that if one's conscience requires one to do what is good for everyone in the long run, then that one needs to come up with some good things humanity can work for that stand a good chance of being preserved forever.

Now returning to your additional point about humanity's serious problems. You can help us by identifying what you think those are and how you believe Mormonism
mitigates them...

Think global warming in the short term. I'm not convinced anyone knows the full effect of that, if the doomsayers are right. Might it threaten the very survival of the human race? Who knows?

Think heat death of the universe in the long term. Somewhere around 100 billion C.E. the last bit of hydrogen in the universe is going to fuse into helium; shortly after there won't be any shining stars anywhere.

And do you really think global warming and universal heat death are the only problems that might affect the survival of the human race over the next 100 billion years?

If the LDS version of God really does exist, then with He and us working on these two problems (and all the other implied problems), we can clearly eventually resolve them. If the LDS version of God doesn't actually exist, then the job of solving all those problems falls on us. And we'd better get started on them.

[_KevinSim]

Could you define in your own words what you mean by conscience? I can't really know until then what you want.

I guess when I speak of one's conscience I'm referring to what motivates one to work towards as much good as that one can accomplish.

[_Nightlion]

I guess when I speak of one's conscience I'm referring to what motivates one to work towards as much good as that one can accomplish.

Hello, my name here is Nightlion. I am the MD token true saint. How come you ignored my comment about Zion? Are you one of them Mawrmans who cannot abide a true saint nohow, and don't want to so much as hear that there can even be such a thing as a real Zion?

[_KevinSim]

Your question presumes a sort of moral superiority in Mormonism that has yet to be proven.

No it doesn't. My question doesn't presume anything at all.

Now if nobody can answer my question, then that might lend credence to the moral superiority of Mormonism, but that's not what you said.

[_beastie]

You've been given more than adequate responses to your question. The fact that you still refuse to accept these reasonable alternatives means that you are simply not able, at this point in your life, to accept that such alternatives exist.

And, once again, I frankly don't think the LDS has any proven track record of moral superiority or enhancing the situation of humankind in general. Unless you think the City Creek Mall will somehow enhance the lives of the third-world countries that could otherwise have been truly helped by that money. And it just isn't the mall. If the LDS church isn't "true" as it proposes to be, then all the millions of dollars and man-hours spent on temple work is another wasted resource that could have done tremendous good elsewhere. As the millions of hours of missionary labor could do, as well.

[_lulu]

Somewhere around 100 billion C.E. the last bit of hydrogen in the universe is going to fuse into helium; shortly after there won't be any shining stars anywhere.

Dude, if you think you have to solve that problem before your life will have meaning, you'll just have to live a life with no meaning, conscientious or not.

[_KevinSim]

Oh, well then, Zion is the obvious choice. Zion would be the original Mormonism done right. That has never even been attempted yet. Wont be by the LDS Church ever.

Nightlion, sounds interesting. Why should I come to the conclusion that the Zion you describe would be any improvement over the LDS Church?