CS Monitor: "The Coming Evangelical Collapse"

[_harmony]

The rise of Islam could certainly drive people back into conservative Christianity.

How so?

[_huckelberry]

Standard fundamentalist Jeremiad.

I kind of hope my first reaction ,above, is wrong. It could be an interesting theory good to push people to reconsider assumptions. But it still sounds like the standard assumptions are the result, too much emotion, too few fundamentals, need to find real five pointers etc.

Oh heck I am utterly clueless about the culture he is in the mddle of.I wonder if I would realize it if it passed.

I think EV must learn real respect for science and real history.
I think it must recreate the fundamentals in a form closer to Jesus.
It must tell its Children how life is worth living well and how Christianity is the path to living life well.

Christianity does not have a one real form. It has had many forms over the centuries and in different places. They are all in need of renewal. Renewal has happened before and will again I believe.

[_harmony]

They are all in need of renewal. Renewal has happened before and will again I believe.

As long as it's not a "restoration" based on gold plates that mysteriously disappear.

[_Aristotle Smith]

Standard fundamentalist Jeremiad.

I kind of hope my first reaction ,above, is wrong. It could be an interesting theory good to push people to reconsider assumptions. But it still sounds like the standard assumptions are the result, too much emotion, too few fundamentals, need to find real five pointers etc.

Oh heck I am utterly clueless about the culture he is in the mddle of.I wonder if I would realize it if it passed.

The author, Michael Spenser, was no fundamentalist. He was raised in a fundamentalist/Southern Baptist culture, but checked out of that culture as an adult. When he talks about people needing better theology, this is to counter both shallow emotionalism AND fundie nonsense. He wanted more grace in Christianity, less rules, more Jesus, and less shallowness.

I think EV must learn real respect for science and real history.

He constantly begged and pleaded for conservative Evangelicals to stop making being anti-evolution a litmus test.

I think it must recreate the fundamentals in a form closer to Jesus.
It must tell its Children how life is worth living well and how Christianity is the path to living life well.

Spenser died after just barely finishing his first book called "Jesus Shaped Spirituality," which basically does what you said above.

Christianity does not have a one real form. It has had many forms over the centuries and in different places. They are all in need of renewal. Renewal has happened before and will again I believe.

Spenser was aware of that. A few years before he died his wife Denise converted to Catholicism, and he made his peace with that. He was very fond of Anglican liturgy and attended Anglican services as often as he could. He was a fill-in preacher for a Presbyterian church. Some of his favorite conversation partners were Lutheran and he loved Lutheran theology. He was himself a Baptist and taught at a Baptist school. He understood that Christianity could have many forms and appreciated many of them.

[_EAllusion]

This collapse will herald the arrival of an anti-Christian chapter of the post-Christian West. Intolerance of Christianity will rise to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes, and public policy will become hostile toward evangelical Christianity, seeing it as the opponent of the common good.

This seems chicken littlelish given the ascendent power of Christian hegemony in significant parts of the West. This hasn't even started to happen. One major political party in America - still by far the most powerful country in the West - is heavily influenced, more than ever before, by evangelical Christians with varying degrees of desire to use the government as a tool of their religion. As a result, this reads as persecution complex fears not realized by facts on the ground. I'll charitably assume the author isn't naïve enough to equate secular government as hostility towards Christians, but this kind of language plays into that evangelical trope. Though when he worries about "relativism" I'm not so sure.

[_huckelberry]

AristotleSmith, thankyou for filling in information about Mr Spenser. I had a suspicion that he was actually thinking from a point more within the geography of my thinking experience than I first indicated. He sounds familiar with an EV culture which he is at the same time somewhat outside of. I am Presbyterian in the Pacific Northwest. The fundamentalist, Biblebelt, antievolution, culture war, conservative politics, megachurch culture is pretty foreign to me.

The prediction of coming demise made me remember my own outlook around 1968. I no longer believed any form of Christianity. I could not imagine returning to belief. I saw all around me people and particularly young poeple fleeing from traditional religious beliefs.Mainlive churchs were fading from unbelief from the top down while conservative faith was being left as rigid and lifeless. A new secular world was emerging and Christianity would be long gone. There was a movie made by a star child evangelist, whose name I have forgotten, revealing what he saw as greed fueling hypocrasy and pure unbelief to make a big moneymaking show of empty religion. To my mind and to others I knew or could see that summed up the change.

Then when Christianity should disappear I started seeing long haired youth talking born again Christianity. I thought that was bizarre. As time went it was clear that those groups were part of a whole resurgence of conservative Christian faith.

This is a note of caution about premature predictions of faiths demise.

I consider that I think a mature reflective faith well meshed with actual life is important . At the same time I suspect that faith is started by the call or push of the Spirit which has no inclination to wait for people to achieve mature reflection first. People may be pushed pell mell towards faith which they will later have to deal with understanding.

[_Blixa]

Standard fundamentalist Jeremiad.

I kind of hope my first reaction ,above, is wrong. It could be an interesting theory good to push people to reconsider assumptions. But it still sounds like the standard assumptions are the result, too much emotion, too few fundamentals, need to find real five pointers etc.

Oh heck I am utterly clueless about the culture he is in the mddle of.I wonder if I would realize it if it passed.

The author, Michael Spenser, was no fundamentalist. He was raised in a fundamentalist/Southern Baptist culture, but checked out of that culture as an adult. When he talks about people needing better theology, this is to counter both shallow emotionalism AND fundie nonsense. He wanted more grace in Christianity, less rules, more Jesus, and less shallowness.

I think EV must learn real respect for science and real history.

He constantly begged and pleaded for conservative Evangelicals to stop making being anti-evolution a litmus test.

I think it must recreate the fundamentals in a form closer to Jesus.
It must tell its Children how life is worth living well and how Christianity is the path to living life well.

Spenser died after just barely finishing his first book called "Jesus Shaped Spirituality," which basically does what you said above.

Christianity does not have a one real form. It has had many forms over the centuries and in different places. They are all in need of renewal. Renewal has happened before and will again I believe.

Spenser was aware of that. A few years before he died his wife Denise converted to Catholicism, and he made his peace with that. He was very fond of Anglican liturgy and attended Anglican services as often as he could. He was a fill-in preacher for a Presbyterian church. Some of his favorite conversation partners were Lutheran and he loved Lutheran theology. He was himself a Baptist and taught at a Baptist school. He understood that Christianity could have many forms and appreciated many of them.

Thanks, Aristotle. Once again you've given me something for future reading!

[_huckelberry]

They are all in need of renewal. Renewal has happened before and will again I believe.

As long as it's not a "restoration" based on gold plates that mysteriously disappear.

knowing what you mean,, I might add the other obvious note that there have been more than a couple of renewals which have gone or started awry.

[_MCB]

knowing what you mean,, I might add the other obvious note that there have been more than a couple of renewals which have gone or started awry.

Like the post Vatican II confusion in the Catholic Church.

[_Aristotle Smith]

Thanks, Aristotle. Once again you've given me something for future reading!

Unfortunately, I did not remember the title of the book correctly. The book's title is "Mere Churchianity: Finding Your Way Back to Jesus-Shaped Spirituality." It seems I remembered the subtitle, but not the main title. I guess I shouldn't post late at night, my brain was not working correctly.