With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

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_Everybody Wang Chung
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With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

After recently spending some time reading their articles, I will never steer a questioning member of my Ward to any materials published by FARMS or FAIR. I’m thoroughly convinced that the activities and published materials of FARMS/FAIR are directly related to the erosion in membership growth and, as Elder Jenson recently revealed, the current mass exodus of members.

In the last several weeks, I have also seen first-hand how truly damaging FARMS and FAIR are to struggling members who have sincere questions and doubts.

Most of what FARMS/FAIR writes directly contradicts published statements by past and present LDS Prophets and LDS leaders. They spin a twisted, convoluted, outlandish, complex version of Mormonism (the result of having to explain so many inconsistencies and other troubling evidences away) that it’s completely unrecognizable to the average Mormon.

The arguments of FARMS/FAIR are trivially weak to me, resolving disputes by definition, by simple appeal to authority, or by pure ad hominem attack. Furthermore, the doctrinal positions invoked included a willingness to unconditionally reject all uncanonized statements by Church leaders when advantageous, or accept all uncanonized statements if advantageous for the sake of argument. This inconsistency for the sake of argument is disingenuous and totally insane.

Most important, the manner in which FARMS/FAIR addresses critics is completely inappropriate and unchristlike. In The Book of Mormon, the critics and anti-Christs are never convincingly defeated by argument. Time and again it is the Prophets’ personal revelatory experiences that fortify them as individuals and end up convincing the entire community.

Finally, FARMS/FAIR writers are not “scholars,” they are apologists. They do not use scholarly (scientific) methods, but instead pervert the scientific method by beginning with the conclusion and working backward to the premises, and they scrupulously avoid submitting their work to true peer review by the scientific/scholarly community. To self -label themselves as “scholars” is an act of overt, but misapplied, generosity.

With friends like FARMS/FAIR, the Church doesn’t need any enemies.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_Carton
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Re: With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

Post by _Carton »

I am really curious about your "first hand example". Might it be possible for you to share it with us?

Thanks ...
"I do not want you to think that I am very righteous, for I am not."
Joseph Smith (History of the Church 5:401)
_Yoda

Re: With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

Post by _Yoda »

Hey, Everybody Wang Chung, is the picture in your avatar you and your wife?

You guys are so cute!!!! :biggrin:
_Doctor Scratch
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Re: With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Well, Everybody Wang Chung, if the recent explosion on Facebook is any indication, there is a Vanguard of up-and-coming apologists who will ultimately change things. I don't foresee the old school Mopologists going quietly into that good night, but change does seem inevitable. Really, the only young Mopologist I can think of who fits in with the Old Guard way of doing things is Maklelan, but he is kind of an odd-man out. Perhaps Rommelator will wind up a jerk, but he is (If I recall correctly) still quite young, and may wind up emulating Bokovoy et al.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Everybody Wang Chung
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Re: With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

liz3564 wrote:Hey, Everybody Wang Chung, is the picture in your avatar you and your wife?

You guys are so cute!!!! :biggrin:



Sorry for the confusion, but no, that is not me or my wife. I have recently had a couple of people ask me the same question. I guess it's time to change my avatar.


liz3564 wrote:Pot, meet kettle. :biggrin:



Amen, sister. Amen.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_Everybody Wang Chung
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:53 am

Re: With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

Doctor Scratch wrote:Well, Everybody Wang Chung, if the recent explosion on Facebook is any indication, there is a Vanguard of up-and-coming apologists who will ultimately change things. I don't foresee the old school Mopologists going quietly into that good night, but change does seem inevitable. Really, the only young Mopologist I can think of who fits in with the Old Guard way of doing things is Maklelan, but he is kind of an odd-man out. Perhaps Rommelator will wind up a jerk, but he is (If I recall correctly) still quite young, and may wind up emulating Bokovoy et al.



I agree that things will ultimately change with the up-and-coming apologists. I can only hope and dream that in the very near future someone in the Church leadership (maybe Oaks) will mandate that FAIR and FARMS disband and permanently delete all articles and materials.

Until that happens, the Church will continue to hemorrage members at an alarming rate.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_harmony
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Re: With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

Post by _harmony »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:I agree that things will ultimately change with the up-and-coming apologists. I can only hope and dream that in the very near future someone in the Church leadership (maybe Oaks) will mandate that FAIR and FARMS disband and permanently delete all articles and materials.


They've got more important things to do... like dedicate lawyer's offices.

Until that happens, the Church will continue to hemorrage members at an alarming rate.


This must be happening somewhere besides here.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_ldsfaqs
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Re: With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

Post by _ldsfaqs »

Funny.... Everything Wang Chung just stated about FAIR and the Maxwell institute is EXACTLY what anti-mormon claims look like.

Don't believe me, just look at his post. Not a single word of substance, nothing but slander, unfair degrading, lies, misrepresentations, etc.

There isn't a SINGLE good and decent person with reasonable intelligence out there who doesn't have a dog with or exposed much to EITHER side, who compares anti-mormonism with LDS scholarship side by side issue by issue who doesn't consider anti-mormonism to be all the crap that Wang Chung just said of LDS scholarship.

Anyone decent can tell the difference between a little "sarcasm" in some LDS articles, and the outright immorality such as displayed on this forum toward Mormonism and Mormons.

Anyone decent can take two claims side by side and see how anti-mormonism omits important facts, creating a false narrative.
"Socialism is Rape and Capitalism is consensual sex" - Ben Shapiro
_Drifting
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Re: With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

Post by _Drifting »

ldsfaqs wrote:Funny.... Everything Wang Chung just stated about FAIR and the Maxwell institute is EXACTLY what anti-mormon claims look like.


That's the thing about truth and facts. They are consistent regardless of who's stating them....
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_Dr. Shades
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Re: With Friends Like FARMS, The Church Doesn't Need Enemies

Post by _Dr. Shades »

[MODERATOR NOTE: The "Whited Sepulcher" attack/derailment and all responses thereunto have been split into the Telestial Forum. click here to view them.]
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"

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