From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardner?

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardne

Post by _Buffalo »

bcspace wrote:
2. What do you mean by the term "social justice?"


Enforced theft of wealth and the unearned distribution of it. All lifestyles have equal merit. The end of progress. Etc.


Emancipation, human rights, and other ideas at odds with conservatism.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_bcspace
_Emeritus
Posts: 18534
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2006 6:48 pm

Re: From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardne

Post by _bcspace »

Enforced theft of wealth

Tithing


Tithe paying is not enforced in the Church. One cannot so easily escape a socialist society however.
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Drifting
_Emeritus
Posts: 7306
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 10:52 am

Re: From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardne

Post by _Drifting »

bcspace wrote:
Enforced theft of wealth

Tithing


Tithe paying is not enforced in the Church. One cannot so easily escape a socialist society however.


Actually it is, you cannot attend the Temple unless you pay up.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
Keith McMullin - Counsellor in Presiding Bishopric

"One, two, three...let's go shopping!"
Thomas S Monson - Prophet, Seer, Revelator
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardne

Post by _Buffalo »

bcspace wrote:
Enforced theft of wealth

Tithing


Tithe paying is not enforced in the Church. One cannot so easily escape a socialist society however.


Yes it is. Pay up or surrender your exaltation.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardne

Post by _Droopy »

I can't answer for David, but I have also learned that "spirituality" has very little to do with churches and doctrine and orthodoxy. I've also learned that "social justice" and mega-malls are not the same thing.


I have no idea what you're talking about.

Or, perhaps I do, and I'm not sure I can face it on a full stomach.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardne

Post by _Droopy »

Carton wrote:I'm sure that people like Droopy, Schryver, and Pahoran will be the first to celebrate what they will call David's "apostasy". They can't seem to tell the difference between "apostasy" and "enlightenment".



I do know question begging when I see it, however. Several years ago, I expressed open concern (on another board and here) that if David continued down the path he had, at that time, set out upon regarding his avant garde interpretations of both scripture and modern Church teaching regarding his unique preoccupation - traditional Leftist social/economic architecture with a gospel gloss - he ran the very real risk of alienating himself from the Spirit of the Lord, from the Church, and from other LDS intellectuals within the apologetic movement who did not share his LDS version of the vision of the anointed.

It does seem that this is the path he has chosen to set his feet upon, and while it is the ideologically fashionable and popular path within the realms of the humanities and social sciences in the elite chambers of contemporary academe, what it patently is not is the gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints.

Perhaps David now feels more at home with the "reform" Mormon culture that has coalesced around figures like Joanna Brooks, for whom the Church must meet the Great and Spacious Building halfway and acclimatize itself to critical aspects of the modern secular world.

So be it (sad as it is), but whatever road he has set out upon, yellow brick or Bifrost Bridge (as he may assume), a prerequisite for so doing is releasing one's grip upon the iron rod.

Its getting too late, as Jeffery Holland said this past conference, to take such tangential trips into the wilderness.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Buffalo
_Emeritus
Posts: 12064
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:33 pm

Re: From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardne

Post by _Buffalo »

Droopy wrote:
Carton wrote:I'm sure that people like Droopy, Schryver, and Pahoran will be the first to celebrate what they will call David's "apostasy". They can't seem to tell the difference between "apostasy" and "enlightenment".



I do know question begging when I see it, however. Several years ago, I expressed open concern (on another board and here) that if David continued down the path he had, at that time, set out upon regarding his avant garde interpretations of both scripture and modern Church teaching regarding his unique preoccupation - traditional Leftist social/economic architecture with a gospel gloss - he ran the very real risk of alienating himself from the Spirit of the Lord, from the Church, and from other LDS intellectuals within the apologetic movement who did not share his LDS version of the vision of the anointed.



How would you describe your relationship with LDS intellectuals within the apologetic movement, Droopy? :mrgreen:
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardne

Post by _Droopy »

Emancipation, human rights, and other ideas at odds with conservatism.


1. Conservatism, and with certain provisos and caviats, libertarianism, are the only political philosophies now in existence proposing the protection and defense of those concepts.

2. The Left, across all its schools of thought, is a philosophy of slavery (usually by degrees but sometimes in one lurching social upheaval) who's god is power and for whom the gospel of Jesus Christ is a obscene barrier to the idolatry of ideology.

There's really no use pretending anymore that the Left is about "emancipation" from anything but liberty and morality, and without morality, liberty is moot.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardne

Post by _Droopy »

Actually it is, you cannot attend the Temple unless you pay up.


1. That's not "enforcement." Its a standard one is free to accept or reject.

2. If I do not pay my taxes, I go to jail. In a collectivist society (socialist/communist, fascist, National Socialist etc.) my existence and its meaning are inextricably connected with the definition of meaning to my existence as determined and enforced by the state ( and relative to a standard of rigorous, ideological purity for which no dissent is tolerated) across the entire society as a collective. If I choose not to accept that meaning and purpose, it is not a matter of not being able to attend the Temple; it is a matter of becoming a non-person and a "class enemy" or "enemy of the people" being, as I would then be, an individual outside the herd by my very existence questioning the relative importance of being within the herd. The herd is united; it is a collective moving, thinking, aspiring, and behaving as one. Each and every individual in a socialistic community is directly and inextricably implicated, by each action he takes, in the lives of every other individual.

And that has consequences, as history so eloquently discloses.
Last edited by Guest on Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:01 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: From My Informant: Stormy Weather Ahead for Brant Gardne

Post by _Droopy »

How would you describe your relationship with LDS intellectuals within the apologetic movement, Droopy?



Just fine, so long as they're actually LDS apologists and not LDS intellectuals seeking their place in the fashionable intellectual and political sun by genuflecting the Dialogue and Sunstone culture that has toxified the LDS intellectual world to some extent and sent it rhizomes into the apologetic movement itself.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
Post Reply