Joseph's Swamp

[_MCB]

Done. There were two pages missing. If anyone wants a copy, send me a pm. There were a few words I couldn't decipher, even at 600%

[_beastie]

Thank you so much, MCB!

[_why me]

I don't see how anyone can defend what Joseph did. To me, it's far worse than the secretive polygamy. It shows just how much he was willing to prey upon people.

Actually, the saints would have been perfectly happy in Missouri if they were allowed to worship freely and live in peace. But that was not to be. And it is there that I see the problem. Joseph lived in nauvoo among the saints. He wasn't living anywhere else. Also, the saints in nauvoo did not blame Joseph for their plight. They were used to harsh conditions and Joseph also suffered pain from the harsh conditions that he experienced as a Mormon.

Circumstances have changed. When Presidents Young, Kimball and others left Nauvoo to go to England without purse or scrip, they left a few houseless, homeless people, a great proportion of them sick, lying out of doors, with no covering only the broad canopy of heaven, on the banks of the Mississippi, robbed of everything they possessed by the benevolent Christians of the State of Missouri, and driven away into Illinois, and from exposure and over-exertion and suffering reduced by disease and sickness to the last extremity of human endurance. It was under such circumstances as these that the brethren started forth on their mission to England. When they had gone a few miles they were met by an old friend, who, on seeing their sick and wan condition, inquired who had been robbing the burying-ground. These are circumstances which have passed into history.

http://en.fairmormon.org/Journal_of_Discourses/10/32

The vultures came from outside the faith as the vultures preyed on the hapless Mormons, causing sickness among the early saints. But some people on this thread would prefer to ignore it.

[_BartBurk]

I found this interesting article on the subject:

https://byustudies.BYU.edu/PDFLibrary/4 ... c8645e.pdf

My feeling is that Joseph and the Saints turned Nauvoo into a better place. It required some sacrifice and some optimism to make it happen. And while people died, the fact is early death among the pioneers of all stripes was not uncommon -- I would rather celebrate their work and vision than try to find fault with it. Sure there might have been mistakes made, but I don't really think that can be held against Joseph as to whether or not he was a prophet. I don't know many LDS who think Joseph Smith was 100% infallible.

[_MCB]

Thanks Bart.

I will read it. Preliminary opinion: They may have purchased that land not knowing it was swampy. Isaac Galland was a crook, and his associate probably was, also. As for archaeology, much of the particular areas are underwater now with the dam, or buried under massive amounts of fill, so I doubt that they could make any significant discoveries.

ETA: The drainage ditches are much more extensive now. In addition, with the dam, water levels are stable, so flooding is no longer a significant issue.

WhyMe:
If you think the anti-Mormons were the only people guilty of criminal acts in the Nauvoo era, I can sell you 100 acres of swampland on the Mississipi, and a pile of forged quit-claim deeds on Indian land across the river.
Mormons are so gullible!

[_why me]

WhyMe:
If you think the anti-Mormons were the only people guilty of criminal acts in the Nauvoo era, I can sell you 100 acres of swampland on the Mississipi, and a pile of forged quit-claim deeds on Indian land across the river.
Mormons are so gullible!

We cannot ignore the fact that Mormons were chased out of missouri by socalled christians who took their property, and caused great harm to them. If that didn't happen, neither would have Nauvoo.

[_hobo1512]

We cannot ignore the fact that Mormons were chased out of missouri by socalled christians who took their property, and caused great harm to them. If that didn't happen, neither would have Nauvoo.

And if Smith hadn't scammed people in the whole banking thing, taking all of their savings etc. none of this would have happened.

And if Smith hadn't been screwing other men's wives and daughters, none of this would have happened.

And if Smith hadn't scammed people trying to find buried treasure using peep stones, none of this would have happened.

See a trend here?

At what point does Smith become responsible for his actions?

[_why me]

And if Smith hadn't scammed people in the whole banking thing, taking all of their savings etc. none of this would have happened.

You need to read up on the Kirkland banking crisis and the role that antimormons played in the banks fall. Try Bushman's book pages 330 to 332. Hate is a very powerful tool and it can cause others some pain.

[_why me]

And if Smith hadn't scammed people trying to find buried treasure using peep stones, none of this would have happened.

See a trend here?

Con? I don't think so. You need to read up on this too. But it really has nothing to do with the thread. Mormons were murdered, had their property stolen or burned and they fled to nauvoo. And that is the point. Unless of course, you condone the killing of people or confiscationg their property because they belonged to Smith's church.

That would not be very catholic of you...

[_Darth J]

In summary, it's the anti-Mormons' fault that Joseph Smith was a con artist.