why me wrote: Joseph was not a dictator or a villain.
I never said he was. They are subjective terms anyways. Joseph certainly behaved badly in many areas.
It is obvious that he did not just sit down and write this letter himself. He had some advice and quite possibly a lawyer. Of course, it represented Joseph Smith and I am sure that he provided the outline and made comments about what should be in the letter. But the official nature of the letter and its importance would imply that he had help.
You continue to assert things you don't know as though this somehow absolves Joseph from this letter. It is your way of trying to blame some unknown person for the contents of the letter. I would be surprised at how stupid this line of reasoning if it had not come from you. I also know you will defend Joseph no matter what. Again you are probably the best example of what beastie says here.
It is a testament to the human ability to engage in self-deception that anyone can read the underlined words of Joseph Smith and insist he was innocent in this tragedy.
I've often wondered that, if a letter from Joseph Smith were found and verified to be legit, in which he admitted that he made up the stories of the First Vision and Moroni, if True Believers would stop believing.
I don't think they would. I think they'd find a way to engage in extreme mental gymnastics to avoid the reality of his words, just as they are doing here.
why me wrote:I think that you need to apologize to Joseph Smith in your prayers tonight. Joseph was not such a bad man as you made him out to be. LDS historians tend to see the bigger picture with Joseph Smith and they are not blinded by hatred. And that makes all the difference.
Too bad you cannot see the bigger picture. I have already said that the truth will usually be somewhere in the middle.
why me wrote:The other problem here is that some people keep using the word con. It wasn't a con. Joseph wasn't conning people out of their money to get rich and he wasn't a murderer of innocent people which would be the case if people were dying after buying and settling the land.
And that is the problem that I see with some posts. For many here, whatever Joseph did was a con as if the people he conned were stupid idiots who didn't have a brain in their heads. We need to give people some credit. But the Smith haters on this thread are beyond help and have lost all historical objectivity.
If it talks like a duck, and walks like a duck......chances are it's a duck.
Once a con, always a con.
People did wake up to smith and his con's. That's why he got ran out of so many different towns.....duh
OK I have found two articles by Michael Guy Bishop on the evolution of Mormon thought on the problem of pain, sickness, and death. His dissertation also looks interesting. Does anyone have access to it? http://openlibrary.org/books/OL14211912 ... ial_family
Huckelberry said: I see the order and harmony to be the very image of God which smiles upon us each morning as we awake.
why me wrote: I think that you need to apologize to Joseph Smith in your prayers tonight. Joseph was not such a bad man as you made him out to be. LDS historians tend to see the bigger picture with Joseph Smith and they are not blinded by hatred. And that makes all the difference.
Wait...you pray to Joseph Smith?
Fundie assertion confirmed by our very own "why me."
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." - Samuel Clemens
The name of the "king" in Facsimile No. 3 of the Book of Abraham is Isis. Yes...that is her name.
Fundie assertion confirmed by our very own "why me."
MCB is a catholic. She prays to catholic saints for intercession. She can also pray to Joseph for forgiveness.
My point was simple: Those who condemned joseph smith as they usually do because of their hatred, should also apologize to him when he is pointed out not to be such a villain.
They just need to say 'sorry joe'.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
hobo1512 wrote:If it talks like a duck, and walks like a duck......chances are it's a duck.
Once a con, always a con.
People did wake up to smith and his con's. That's why he got ran out of so many different towns.....duh
You need to stop quacking....
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
why me wrote: MCB is a catholic. She prays to catholic saints for intercession. She can also pray to Joseph for forgiveness.
My point was simple: Those who condemned joseph smith as they usually do because of their hatred, should also apologize to him when he is pointed out not to be such a villain.
They just need to say 'sorry joe'.
Telling ex-Mormons to ask Joe Smith for forgiveness is like telling victims of abuse at the hands of Catholic priests to say sorry to the Pope. Or asking the family members of Jeffrey Dahmer's victims to ask Dahmer for forgiveness. Or asking those who invested with Bernie Madoff to say they're sorry to him for saying bad things about him. You've got it exactly bass-ackwards, as usual.
"The Church is authoritarian, tribal, provincial, and founded on a loosely biblical racist frontier sex cult."--Juggler Vain "The LDS church is the Amway of religions. Even with all the soap they sell, they still manage to come away smelling dirty."--Some Schmo
