First Vision Who talked to Joseph Smith God or someone else ?

[_JudgemeGod]

I would like to share a few thoughts on the first vision.

For just a few moments lets say that the account in the LDS Pearl of great price really happened. Let us ignore the different versions and just say that the published version must be doctrine and true. That being said lets look at the account.

Now Everyone who preaches this to me tells me it is God the father and the son who appears to Joseph Smith but when I read Joseph Smith: 17 I find they never say who they are. There is not, I am Jehovah or I am the God of Abraham Issac and Jacob, or even I am “I am” but we get “This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him”
Now this statement would cover every male. The talker is making us jump to a conclusion for an identity without actually saying who they are.
So who are these “men” that are talking to Young Joseph. Lets try to find out by what they say. They said “all their creeds were an abomination in his sight: that those professors were all corrupt;”
I think all start here , “all their creeds were an abomination in his sight” this should give a hint to who these guys are. Now this bothers me a little that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight. If every statement of faith is an abomination to this being, this can't be God and Jesus talking. Ok you may say that is not a “creed” lets look at what he is talking about.
The Apostles' Creed
I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth.
And in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord; who was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy universal Church, the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and the life everlasting. Amen.

Now who would consider these statements an “abomination” ?
Next who would consider that all “professors were all corrupt”. Who is he talking about ? What is a professor ? Latin: as a "person who professes" Who is the most famous professor of Christianity ?
I would say it is Paul. He said they were “all corrupt” not just the living ones. No exseptions !
So who can appear as an Angel of light, condems all statements of faith as abominations and calls Paul and all Apostles and professors of faith “corrupt”. It can't be God and Jesus Christ.

It could be Satan and a son of Perdition.
Think about it This is Mormon doctrine And they want to be called Christian

[_Corpsegrinder]

Yes, from the perspective of Mainstream Christianity, Joseph Smith was either a fraud or a dupe of Satan.

But from an Islamic perspective, the belief that Jesus Christ is a universal savior is viewed as heresy. To Islamists, Jesus was only a prophet, somewhat like Mohammad.

And from the perspective of certain far-eastern religions, Jesus Christ is simply another avatar of Krishna.

And from the perspective of certain folk religions in China, Jesus is viewed as a just another local deity, like the Door Gods, the Goddess of Mercy, the Sea God, & etc.

And from the perspective of certain Buddhists, Jesus was only a man, albeit a great teacher of wisdom.

And from the perspective of Hong Syou-Chywan, leader of China’s Taipng Tyangwo movement, Jesus had a Heavenly Father, a Heavenly Mother, and a younger brother.

And from the perspective of Scientology...well, I won't even go there.

The common theme that runs through all of these contrasting perspectives (including that of Christianity) is this: “My unverifiable supernatural belief system is superior to all other unverifiable supernatural belief systems, which are the products of fraud, heresy, and ignorance.”

[_JudgemeGod]

It is quite true. Right and wrong and logic do not apply when it comes to peoples belief structures.
Even though the foundation of who they are is wraped up in it. People have to much invested in what they think is right. If they were to acknowledge that the spirit did not tell them what is what they would have to admit they may have married the wrong person or had the wrong job or number of children. The whole of their lives could be wrong. This is scarry for most poeple. Paying tithing or the great mall are nothing compaired to their life, family, job, friends, and everything. They are based on them following the “spirit”. The thought of that being wrong is terrifying to most of the strong LDS.
So why engage with these people in arguments that can go nowhere ? Bcspace argues about church doctrine but he has no idea. If I were to follow his direction I would be following Osiris because it is written in his book of Peal of great price. The fact that he can't read egyption does not change what it says in the poor copies they print there. They ignore the obvious profess the obsered and show their lack of understanding over and over again. They lie to themselves and try to hold on to who they are.
A true Christian God would not say the things the J.S. Says that he said. A loving father would not call his childrens atempt to understand faith an "abomination".
They have little understanding of the real world out there.

[_hobo1512]

Maybe it was Mark Hoffman who talked to Joe, and told him how to scam people.

I'm just sayin.....

[_JudgemeGod]

I think Mark Hoffman was a piker compaired to Joseph Smith.
Joseph Smith had a far more Experienced teacher.

[_Corpsegrinder]

I think Mark Hoffman was a piker compaired to Joseph Smith.
Joseph Smith had a far more Experienced teacher.

Would you be willing to say the same thing about the Prophet Mohammad?

[_Corpsegrinder]

It is quite true. Right and wrong and logic do not apply when it comes to peoples belief structures.
Even though the foundation of who they are is wraped up in it. People have to much invested in what they think is right. If they were to acknowledge that the spirit did not tell them what is what they would have to admit they may have married the wrong person or had the wrong job or number of children. The whole of their lives could be wrong. This is scarry for most poeple.

Judgemegod, I admire the fact that you have the courage to admit this. Most Christians, upon reaching this point in the conversation, would simply throw a fit and stomp off. Thank you for your honesty.

[_JudgemeGod]

Would I be willing to say the same thing about the Prophet Mohammad ?
Probably !
I have only read the Quran twice and have read little of the commentary but the tone and message and story are similar. Even the words Comoros and Moroni are Arabic.
I would say that Buddha, most of them for there were more then one, were carved from a different stone.
I thank you for the compliment. I do consider myself Christian with a dab of hebrew and a pinch of sanity. I have had to many Islamic friends to be angry with them and seen to much of the world to know that people are people no matter what culture they have been raised.
I am not afraid to find that I am wrong and I hope to keep looking for truth in all things.

I do wish that more Christians could be more Christ like but most consider themselfs to be the army of God and all others the enemy.