Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy.")

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_Buffalo
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Re: Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy

Post by _Buffalo »

Droopy wrote:
Droopy? Droopy?


Sorry, I don't live on this board.


This change, unless you can show some documentation regarding any actual doctrinal concern among the GAs as a basis for the change from "Heavenly parents" to "Heavenly Father," is a pure triviality. I suspect that, rather than being a de-amphasis of Heavenly Mother (who has never been emphasized in LDS teaching at all, since the very beginnings of the Church) this represents simply a re-emphasis and focus on the core object of our worship, our Father in Heaven, who's plan, in our theology, the plan of salvation was and who presides at the head of the Grand Council of the Celestial world and is the foundation and center of our worship, awe, and reverence.

Feel that lever on the side of your head, Bluff? Pull it again. Watch out for the lemons.


It's sad that you don't have the character to apologize after falsely accusing me of fabrication. The fact that you need to mount obfuscation and prevarication on top of character assassination is unfortunate. It's quite clear to anyone without an insidious agenda that the church is trying to bury Heavenly Mother.

Someone deliberately edited Heavenly Mother out of the manual. And they don't do that without explicit instruction from the Celestial 15.

It's also clear that you don't understand what the term "de-amphasis" [sic] actually means. How sad for you.
Parley P. Pratt wrote:We must lie to support brother Joseph, it is our duty to do so.

B.R. McConkie, © Intellectual Reserve wrote:There are those who say that revealed religion and organic evolution can be harmonized. This is both false and devilish.
_Droopy
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Re: Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy

Post by _Droopy »

Try reading this again Droopy. It it the view of these young women that I am sharing. Here it is. Read real slow this time:

Well fast forward to today. All three of them wonder if they have worth in God's eyes beyond wife and mother. All three want to pursue careers. My oldest has 30 year old friends who all cringe at the misogynistic patriarchy of the Church (past and still present).


I read it real slow the first time, and the way you phrased it here implies explicit identity of agreement with their views.

They tire of the oft repeated message of wife and mother being their main job and the culture that paints those who differ as apostate. They would love to have more opportunities to lead.


And again the denigration and trivialization of the role of wife, mother, and "homemaker" and the entire argument flowing from the assumption that church callings, spiritual leadership, and the divine calling of both father and mother (and governance within the Church) are about competing power relations between men and woman and official ecclesiastic status within the Church.

I am starting to agree with most here that you are incapable of serious discussion. Anytime someone disagrees with you you fly of into your paragraph length sentences that end up meaning nothing other than some far right uber conservative rant.


I rest my case. You are too far gone, and life is far too short.

I am starting to perhaps agree with Kevin Graham about your intellect and you ability to comprehend. I never did anything of the sorts.


Yes, you have. Its called "sentences" and "paragraphs." The fact that you are so unaware of the philosophical/logical implications of what you write and the impressions you create through the language you use is utterly astounding.

And by the way I personally have no problem if a woman chooses a different path than what the Church teaches. Personally I still believe that marriage is very important and when children come one parent at least should be in the home and typically the mother is the best choice though not always. But I honor peoples choices to work through their own paths and desires with out heaping loads of guilt on them. Here is the rest of what I said. Try responding like and adult otherwise don't bother.


And now you back-peddle - furiously - once called out. This is, again, typical and true to type (there are many others here of similar persuasion.

These are not aberrations Droopy. They are what women of our generation to some extent, really want. Certainly the generation behind us want such things even more so.

Do you dispute this Droopy?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OagFIQMs1tw

That is why I asked before what does the Church do with a Brooks. You view her and those like her as the tares. Maybe so. But there are a lot more tares then coming up in this next generation that shouted hurrah when Julie Beck (who took a very hard line about a woman's role in the Church) was released at the last conference.


Then there are other churches, other belief systems, and other paths to walk. The Church is Christ's, not theirs.
Last edited by Guest on Tue May 01, 2012 7:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

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_DarkHelmet
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Re: Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy

Post by _DarkHelmet »

I heard the reason the church doesn't talk about heavenly mother is because they want to protect her from having her name used in vain. You see, if we knew we had a heavenly mother, we would say HeavenlyMotherDammit instead of Goddammit when we hit our thumb with a hammer. At least that's what I was taught growing up in the church. Not sure if it is official doctrine or not. I have learned from the apologists that the stuff they teach in church is hardly ever doctrinal.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die."
- Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
_Droopy
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Re: Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy

Post by _Droopy »

DarkHelmet wrote:I heard the reason the church doesn't talk about heavenly mother is because they want to protect her from having her name used in vain. You see, if we knew we had a heavenly mother, we would say HeavenlyMotherDammit instead of Goddammit when we hit our thumb with a hammer. At least that's what I was taught growing up in the church. Not sure if it is official doctrine or not. I have learned from the apologists that the stuff they teach in church is hardly ever doctrinal.



Loyd Ericson is not an apologist, and is not a part of the apologetic movement.
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Drifting
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Re: Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy

Post by _Drifting »

DarkHelmet wrote:I heard the reason the church doesn't talk about heavenly mother is because they want to protect her from having her name used in vain. You see, if we knew we had a heavenly mother, we would say HeavenlyMotherDammit instead of Goddammit when we hit our thumb with a hammer. At least that's what I was taught growing up in the church. Not sure if it is official doctrine or not. I have learned from the apologists that the stuff they teach in church is hardly ever doctrinal.


I think the reason the church doesn't talk about Heavenly Mother is because the church believes it's actually Hevenly Mothers.
“We look to not only the spiritual but also the temporal, and we believe that a person who is impoverished temporally cannot blossom spiritually.”
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_aranyborju
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Re: Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy

Post by _aranyborju »

DarkHelmet wrote:I heard the reason the church doesn't talk about heavenly mother is because they want to protect her from having her name used in vain. You see, if we knew we had a heavenly mother, we would say HeavenlyMotherDammit instead of Goddammit when we hit our thumb with a hammer. At least that's what I was taught growing up in the church. Not sure if it is official doctrine or not. I have learned from the apologists that the stuff they teach in church is hardly ever doctrinal.

I was taught the same thing, so it must be doctrine. Out of the mouth of 2 witnesses...and all that.
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." - Samuel Clemens

The name of the "king" in Facsimile No. 3 of the Book of Abraham is Isis. Yes...that is her name.
_just me
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Re: Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy

Post by _just me »

aranyborju wrote:
DarkHelmet wrote:I heard the reason the church doesn't talk about heavenly mother is because they want to protect her from having her name used in vain. You see, if we knew we had a heavenly mother, we would say HeavenlyMotherDammit instead of Goddammit when we hit our thumb with a hammer. At least that's what I was taught growing up in the church. Not sure if it is official doctrine or not. I have learned from the apologists that the stuff they teach in church is hardly ever doctrinal.

I was taught the same thing, so it must be doctrine. Out of the mouth of 2 witnesses...and all that.


Yes, because a Goddess of the universe is incapable of protecting herself from the big, bad humans. :rolleyes:

And, yeah, this is taught frequently.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden
~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
_aranyborju
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Re: Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy

Post by _aranyborju »

I'm going to follow God's example and not tell my kids who their mom is. What if they called her a bitch one day? I just can't handle that, so yeah...it's better to just hide her and pretend that she doesn't exist.

You can just imagine the conversation occurring on a planet somewhere near Kolob right now.

"Now honey, you know that the reason I don't let the kids acknowledge you is that you are just too special."
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." - Samuel Clemens

The name of the "king" in Facsimile No. 3 of the Book of Abraham is Isis. Yes...that is her name.
_lulu
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Re: Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy

Post by _lulu »

Droopy wrote:
DarkHelmet wrote:I heard the reason the church doesn't talk about heavenly mother is because they want to protect her from having her name used in vain. You see, if we knew we had a heavenly mother, we would say HeavenlyMotherDammit instead of Goddammit when we hit our thumb with a hammer. At least that's what I was taught growing up in the church. Not sure if it is official doctrine or not. I have learned from the apologists that the stuff they teach in church is hardly ever doctrinal.
Loyd Ericson is not an apologist, and is not a part of the apologetic movement.
Allan Kashara is not a jelly treader, and is not part of the jelly treader movement.
"And the human knew the source of life, the woman of him, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, 'I have procreated a man with Yahweh.'" Gen. 4:1, interior quote translated by D. Bokovoy.
_Chap
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Re: Mormon Feminism is Back (and its Name is Still "Apostasy

Post by _Chap »

I think everybody should do their best to draw Droopy into the conversation more.
Zadok:
I did not have a faith crisis. I discovered that the Church was having a truth crisis.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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