MsJack wrote: I find it pretty sad that Ms. Bednar's first course of action was to blame herself instead of the two young men,
I did a double take when I read that. Even from an LDS woman that is crazy talk. Two guys act like pigs around her and her first thought was "It must be this slutty turtleneck." What could have conditioned her to blame herself when men victimize her?
Talks and lessons like the one she gave.
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
MsJack wrote: I find it pretty sad that Ms. Bednar's first course of action was to blame herself instead of the two young men,
I did a double take when I read that. Even from an LDS woman that is crazy talk. Two guys act like pigs around her and her first thought was "It must be this slutty turtleneck." What could have conditioned her to blame herself when men victimize her?
Nail on the head, DH.
+1
"I do not want you to think that I am very righteous, for I am not." Joseph Smith (History of the Church 5:401)
RayAgostini wrote: Personally, I see a superb athlete first, a nice body second. Oh, she's married, by the way.
Me too. But put her hair down, dress her in a short skirt and with a nice stapless blouse and have her walk by some guys on the beach, and I am sure that she would get some looks.
But as you know Ray being from Aussieland, certain girls just have it. If they wear revealing clothes, the guy is going to use his imagination a little.
I intend to lay a foundation that will revolutionize the whole world. Joseph Smith We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…” Joseph Smith
DarkHelmet wrote:I did a double take when I read that. Even from an LDS woman that is crazy talk. Two guys act like pigs around her and her first thought was "It must be this slutty turtleneck." What could have conditioned her to blame herself when men victimize her?
We were taught to believe that everything bad was our fault.
DarkHelmet wrote: Really? He didn't know where to look? Generally you look into their eyes when you speak to them(unless you have aspergers). When she reaches down to get her pencil, you can look wherever you want, or you could offer to get the pencil for her if you are near it. Sounds like your professor was as socially awkward around women as you are.
Nice try. Of course he would look into her eyes. But the mind was also saying look downward.
Of course his mind is telling him to look down. A woman doesn't have to show cleavage for me to want to stare at her tits, but acceptable interaction with women is to look at their eyes when you talk and avoid the temptation to ogle them, regardless of what they are wearing. I am reminded of a movie I saw where a guy got a job working on a porn set. They took a break in filming and during the break one of the actresses was walking around the set naked and started a conversation with him. During the conversation he accidentally looked down at her boobs and she got pissed and reported him to the director who kicked him off the set. It's just the way it is for men. We have to learn to control ourselves and act like gentlemen around women, even if you think that they are trying to turn you on. Isn't that what we should teach our boys? You think that's unfair, but sometimes life isn't fair.
Last edited by Guest on Wed May 02, 2012 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
DarkHelmet wrote:I did a double take when I read that. Even from an LDS woman that is crazy talk. Two guys act like pigs around her and her first thought was "It must be this slutty turtleneck." What could have conditioned her to blame herself when men victimize her?
We were taught to believe that everything bad was our fault.
The funny thing is she uses a turtleneck as an example of inappropriate attire. A turtleneck? Like what Velma wears on Scooby-Doo? Isn't a turtleneck the stereotypical attire for prudes?
"We have taken up arms in defense of our liberty, our property, our wives, and our children; we are determined to preserve them, or die." - Captain Moroni - 'Address to the Inhabitants of Canada' 1775
DarkHelmet wrote:The funny thing is she uses a turtleneck as an example of inappropriate attire. A turtleneck? Like what Velma wears on Scooby-Doo? Isn't a turtleneck the stereotypical attire for prudes?
You know what bothers me? It's the way fashion is consumed. I get the feeling that we, the consumers, are not really demanding quality work. All too often, we look at clothing as bipolar: utility or sexual. To some people, non-sexual is the only way to find beauty. Sexual must be avoided. To others, it isn't beautiful if it isn't sexual. What about beautiful all by itself? I looked at the most beautiful flowers on the way to work this morning. I almost fell off my bike looking. I didn't think of the flower on a scale of utility or sexuality. I just loved it for what it was: a glorious plant. Clothing can be beautiful in this same way, I think.
Oh for shame, how the mortals put the blame on us gods, for they say evils come from us, but it is they, rather, who by their own recklessness win sorrow beyond what is given... Zeus (1178 BC)
zeezrom wrote:You know what bothers me? It's the way fashion is consumed. I get the feeling that we, the consumers, are not really demanding quality work. All too often, we look at clothing as bipolar: utility or sexual. To some people, non-sexual is the only way to find beauty. Sexual must be avoided. To others, it isn't beautiful if it isn't sexual. What about beautiful all by itself? I looked at the most beautiful flowers on the way to work this morning. I almost fell off my bike looking. I didn't think of the flower on a scale of utility or sexuality. I just loved it for what it was: a glorious plant. Clothing can be beautiful in this same way, I think.
I think the church has fallen into that trap: clothing must be either utilitarian or slutty. No middle ground. A beautiful dress or a great jacket or any other item of clothing can be beautiful. The nice thing is that beautiful clothing can also be utilitarian and sexy at the same time.