just me wrote:I googled "lying for the lord" once and happened upon the MormonWiki site. It is an evangelical site that fools you at first glance.
just me,
You are right.
How clever of them.
Had me fooled as well.
I was wondering why the rating on the site was poor.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Runtu wrote:I hadn't thought of that, but yes, "lying for the Lord" (or "theocratic ethics") seems to be a uniquely Mormon idea, and one with a long history.
google "lying for allah". taqiyyah and kitman are similar in practice. Both LDS and Islam do not allow lying, view it as a sin, but will allow lying when feeling threatened or persecuted or to smooth over a disagreement. Islam spells it out clearer, as to when it is acceptable or not, than Mormonism.
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI
just me wrote:I googled "lying for the lord" once and happened upon the MormonWiki site. It is an evangelical site that fools you at first glance.
just me,
You are right.
How clever of them.
Had me fooled as well.
Yeah, I made the mistake of linking it to an LDS message board and was informed it was anti and therefore in violation to post it. OOPS!!!
~Those who benefit from the status quo always attribute inequities to the choices of the underdog.~Ann Crittenden ~The Goddess is not separate from the world-She is the world and all things in it.~
I think it is a shame no one brought in much of elder oaks talk. Elder Oaks simply suggests sometimes you need divine guidance on what and how much to say. Elder Oaks also is clear in that the polygamist lied and that God will judge those lies.
Has Elder Oaks talk been published by the LDS Church? if not we can know it is not doctrine and can be ignored.
Runtu wrote:I hadn't thought of that, but yes, "lying for the Lord" (or "theocratic ethics") seems to be a uniquely Mormon idea, and one with a long history.
google "lying for allah". taqiyyah and kitman are similar in practice. Both LDS and Islam do not allow lying, view it as a sin, but will allow lying when feeling threatened or persecuted or to smooth over a disagreement. Islam spells it out clearer, as to when it is acceptable or not, than Mormonism.
DCP posted on that some time ago. However, Biblicaly speaking Christ did say "Agree with thine adversary while thou art in the way with him."
Runtu wrote:I hadn't thought of that, but yes, "lying for the Lord" (or "theocratic ethics") seems to be a uniquely Mormon idea, and one with a long history.
google "lying for allah". taqiyyah and kitman are similar in practice. Both LDS and Islam do not allow lying, view it as a sin, but will allow lying when feeling threatened or persecuted or to smooth over a disagreement. Islam spells it out clearer, as to when it is acceptable or not, than Mormonism.
If I may (from Madeleine's reference above):
Al-Takeyyah (ahl-tah-KAY-uh) is the Islamic principle of lying for the sake of Allah. Falsehoods told to prevent denigration of Islam, to protect oneself, or to promote the cause of Islam are sanctioned by the Qur'an, including lying under penalty of perjury in testimony before the United States Congress, lying or making distorted statements to the media such as claiming that Islam is a religion of peace, and deceiving fellow Muslims when the one lying has deemed them to be apostates.
I can confirm from bitter personal experience that this principle is alive and well in Islam and (when needed) can now apparently be extended to cover the non-payment of debts to infidels.
David Hume: "---Mistakes in philosophy are merely ridiculous, those in religion are dangerous."
DrW: "Mistakes in science are learning opportunities and are eventually corrected."
3sheets2thewind wrote: DCP posted on that some time ago. However, Biblicaly speaking Christ did say "Agree with thine adversary while thou art in the way with him."
That is the KJV translation. Modern English translations render the translation more towards "settle matters quickly", "come to terms quickly" or "make peace quickly". The teaching being, to settle a disagreement that is on the way before a judge before reaching the judge. It doesn't in any way convey that one should lie.
Also sounds like an argument borrowed from Islam, which has the most out-of-context interpretations of the teachings of Jesus than found anywhere else.
Being a Christian is not the result of an ethical choice or a lofty idea, but the encounter with an event, a person, which gives life a new horizon and a decisive direction -Pope Benedict XVI