Those who leave

[_Stormy Waters]

I think an interesting measure of an organization is how it portrays those who choose to leave.

"In later years, I saw a few leave the Church who could then never leave it alone. They used often their intellectual reservations to cover their behavioral lapses"
Neal A. Maxwell April 2004 General conference

"If the people would live their religion, there would be no apostasy"
Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, (1997), 78–84

"Why do men apostatize? Why do they lose the faith? Why do their minds become darkened? Because they wander from the right path; they neglect their duties and forget to pray, and to acknowledge the Lord and He withdraws His Spirit from them and they are left in the dark."
Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith, (1998)

“The moment you permit yourselves to lay aside any duty that God calls you to perform, to gratify your own desires; the moment you permit yourselves to become careless, you lay a foundation for apostasy. Be careful; understand you are called to a work, and when God requires you to do that work do it.” Another thing he said: “In all your trials, tribulations and sickness, in all your sufferings, even unto death, be careful you don’t betray God, be careful you don’t betray the priesthood, be careful you don’t apostatize; because if you do, you will be sorry for it.”
Joseph Smith Ensign Sept 1971

"It seems that history continues to teach us: You can leave the Church, but you can’t leave it alone. The basic reason for this is simple. Once someone has received a witness of the Spirit and accepted it, he leaves neutral ground. One loses his testimony only by listening to the promptings of the evil one, and Satan’s goal is not complete when a person leaves the Church, but when he comes out in open rebellion against it."
Glenn L. Pace General Conference April 1989

"Those who leave the Church are like a feather blown to and fro in the air. They know not whither they are going; they do not understand anything about their own existence; their faith, judgment and the operation of their minds are as unstable as the movements of the feather floating in the air. We have not anything to cling to, only faith in the Gospel" (DBY, 84).
Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, (1997), 78–84

"What is that which turns people away from this Church? Very trifling affairs are generally the commencement of their divergence from the right path."
Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young, (1997), 78–84

"Why did some of the early Church members apostatize from the Church? How could a forgiving attitude have helped them? What does the Lord say we should do when others offend us?"
Lesson 21: Joseph Smith Is Tarred and Feathered," Primary 5: Doctrine and Covenants: Church History, (1997)

"What can we do to keep ourselves from being deceived and led into apostasy?"
"Lesson 24: “Be Not Deceived, but Continue in Steadfastness”," Doctrine and Covenants and Church History Gospel Doctrine Teacher’s Manual, (1999)

"If there are any of us who lack faith in this work it is because we have not kept the commandments of God. If there are any who do not know that this is the work of our Father, it is because they have not done their duty. I know as I know that I live that this is the Lord’s work, and that knowledge comes as a result of keeping His commandments" - George Albert Smith
Teachings of Presidents of the Church: George Albert Smith, 2010

For those who do not believe the truth claims of the church, we are portrayed as if our doubts are illegitimate. That it's because of our shortcomings. That it's because we were offended. Worse still is the result it has on our relationships with our friends and our family.

For those of us who leave, it seems we are offered a choice.
(1) Be honest with our family and friends or
(2) Keep quiet about our doubts and concerns.

There are still times when I wish that I had chosen number (2) with my wife. Was it risking the relationship with my wife? At this point it just seems like there is no way to reconcile. In all likelihood I'll end up losing my one wife over a religion whose founder had thirty two. At my job I've chosen door number (2). My coworkers are all TBM'S, having conversations about the church at work. If they knew, I can't help but think my job would be at risk. The way Mormon culture portrays those who leave... how could it not be? The moment you leave your sincerity is on trail.

in my opinion the church displays a borderline sociopathic lack of compassion for those who leave. It's the well being of the organization over everything else. If demonizing and marginalizing those who leave is good for the church, that's what they will do.

[_thews]

in my opinion the church displays a borderline sociopathic lack of compassion for those who leave. It's the well being of the organization over everything else. If demonizing and marginalizing those who leave is good for the church, that's what they will do.

That's how a cult operates.

[_Stormy Waters]

in my opinion the church displays a borderline sociopathic lack of compassion for those who leave. It's the well being of the organization over everything else. If demonizing and marginalizing those who leave is good for the church, that's what they will do.

That's how a cult operates.

The original title of my thread was going to be "The measure of a cult." I'm trying to tone down my rhetoric though.

[_GR33N]

I saw a few leave the Church who could then never leave it alone.

You can leave the Church, but you can’t leave it alone.

So true... but why?

[_sock puppet]

I saw a few leave the Church who could then never leave it alone.

You can leave the Church, but you can’t leave it alone.

So true... but why?

If its leaders are so confident of its truth claims, why are they so concerned about the membership hemorrhaging?

[_Stormy Waters]

I saw a few leave the Church who could then never leave it alone.

You can leave the Church, but you can’t leave it alone.

So true... but why?

What exactly should ex-Mormons do? After having being in the church for decades should we be expected to just walk out and stay absolutely quiet?
Yes, people who used to be involved in an organization like the LDS church are still going to care about and have thoughts on the topic. Big fricking surprise.

[_Hades]

I saw a few leave the Church who could then never leave it alone.

You can leave the Church, but you can’t leave it alone.

So true... but why?

Must be because we serve Satan now. Has to be. What else could it be?

Right now I'm drinking a micro-brew IPA and toasting to Satan. It is the sabbath.

[_zeezrom]

The most unfair judgment, in my opinion, is that the apostate loses faith.

No, the apostate still has faith in lots of things. Their world is just as light as it ever might have been and maybe more so. It is impossible to know the depth of another's faith in things without being that other person.

[_Stormy Waters]

From the fair blog today

"As I opened it up for discussion, the idea was expressed, and I agreed, that a fundamental reason for loss of faith was a loss of the Spirit. So many of the factors listed above can be tolerated if an individual feels a strong connection with God that is associated with activity in this Church (prayer, scripture reading, Church and temple attendance, etc.)"

[_Buffalo]

What they're really saying is loss of emotional attachment to the church. In that sense, they're right. (Spirit = emotional attachment). Strong emotional attachment to a cause makes people less rational about it.