The Light of Christ

[_Tobin]

Tobin saying he talked to 'God' was the thirteenth strike of the clock, which not only is doubted in itself, but casts into doubt all that preceded it. Now he has seen 'God' too. This fourteenth 'bong' adds to the impression already given by its predecessor.

Whatever. Yes, I stopped being an ex-mormon and atheist because I felt like it. That's stupid. If I didn't have any evidence that there was a God, I wouldn't have bothered with any of this non-sense and do something else. What is your excuse Chap? What is it about Mormonism that fascinates you? If it is total fiction in your opinion, it seems like you waste a lot of your time delving into something any reasonable person would laugh off and go find something useful to do with themselves.

[_Chap]

Tobin saying he talked to 'God' was the thirteenth strike of the clock, which not only is doubted in itself, but casts into doubt all that preceded it. Now he has seen 'God' too. This fourteenth 'bong' adds to the impression already given by its predecessor.

Whatever. Yes, I stopped being an ex-mormon and atheist because I felt like it. That's stupid. If I didn't have any evidence that there was a God, I wouldn't have bothered with any of this non-sense and do something else. What is your excuse Chap? What is it about Mormonism that fascinates you? If it is total fiction in your opinion, it seems like you waste a lot of your time delving into something any reasonable person would laugh off and go find something useful to do with themselves.

Good gracious! Is Tobin violating Universal Rule 1?

Mormonism is a wonderfully concentrated specimen of some of the richest and strangest features of the Abrahamic religious traditions. What's not to like?

[_gdemetz]

Tobin, do you believe that Joseph Smith restored the kingdom that Daniel prophesied would never be destroyed or left to other people, don't you? Do you realize that the name for this church or kingdom (some differences, since the kingdom has provisions for nonmembers also) was also given in revelation to Joseph Smith as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints!" So, if you accept Joseph Smith and Daniel as true prophets, then you should also accept this church as the true church!

[_Tobin]

Tobin, do you believe that Joseph Smith restored the kingdom that Daniel prophesied would never be destroyed or left to other people, don't you? Do you realize that the name for this church or kingdom (some differences, since the kingdom has provisions for nonmembers also) was also given in revelation to Joseph Smith as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints!" So, if you accept Joseph Smith and Daniel as true prophets, then you should also accept this church as the true church!

You are asking the wrong questions gdemetz.
Do I believe Joseph Smith saw God and revealed a number of insights about God over time? Yes.
Do I believe the CoJCoLDS has stayed true to many of those revealed principles? No.

The Church is merely an association of people that believe similar things (not exactly the same thing). It does not control the truth, have a lock on it, nor necessarily do those that are members teach or do the right thing. If one wants to know what the truth is, they need to look a little deeper than trusting in what other men may think. This was exactly what the Lord stated to Joseph Smith when he appeared to him and said, "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof." Those that follow God should pay attention to that. They should think for themselves, form their own informed opinions and do as God inspires them to do because salvation is ultimately between us and God and no man.

by the way - You can always spot those that are false teachers because they will never implore that you to speak with the Lord and will instead either deny the power of God by insisting God doesn't exist, or can't speak with you, or give any number of other reasons to look anywhere else but to the Lord.

[_Drifting]

Tobin, do you believe that Joseph Smith restored the kingdom that Daniel prophesied would never be destroyed or left to other people, don't you? Do you realize that the name for this church or kingdom (some differences, since the kingdom has provisions for nonmembers also) was also given in revelation to Joseph Smith as "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints!" So, if you accept Joseph Smith and Daniel as true prophets, then you should also accept this church as the true church!

Too easy...

The LDS Church did not always have the name "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints".

On April 6, 1830, LDS church leaders met together presumably to fulfill the requirements of the laws of the land, and they named their church consistent with the admonition of the Book of Mormon, "The Church of Christ."

On May 3, 1834, Joseph Smith, as moderator, made a motion to change the name of the church to, "The Church of the Latter Day Saints," which was adopted by unanimous vote (The Evening and Morning Star, vol. 2, no. 20, p. 160, May 1834; History of the Church 2:62). He took Christ right out of the name!

Four years later, on April 26, 1838, it was again changed to "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints" and has remained thus since. (The hyphen in 'Latter-day' was add about a century or so later to be grammatically correct).

The chronology of the name is:

1830: Church of Christ
1834: The Church of the Latter Day Saints
1838: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

Why did Joseph change the Name of the Church after God already told him 4 years before what to name it? "In June, 1829, the Lord gave us the name by which we must call the church, being the same as He gave the Nephites. We obeyed His commandment, and called it The Church of Christ until 1834, when, through the influence of Sydney Rigdon, the name of the church was changed to The Church of the Latter Day Saints, dropping out the name of Christ entirely..." (An Address to All Believers In Christ Whitmer, p. 73). Now to be called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS)

http://mormonthink.com/nameweb.htm

[_gdemetz]

To my knowledge, there was only one revelation from God, as recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, which named the church. It's one thing when it's mans opinion and another when it's God's revelation.

[_Drifting]

To my knowledge, there was only one revelation from God, as recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, which named the church. It's one thing when it's mans opinion and another when it's God's revelation.

And how do you tell the difference?

[_gdemetz]

One way is by reading.

[_Drifting]

One way is by reading.

So, I read the General Conference transcripts - how do I tell which is from God and which is just man speaking?

[_gdemetz]

If you had the Spirit, whoops, never mind that! One is written ion the D&C as a revelation, and the others are not.